Mark Morgan Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) On 28/03/2018 at 11:27, AndyB said: I disagree. The tank markings with half ticks are very accurate so long as you put the machine in the same place on the same concrete floor every time. Then it is VERY accurate. The inaccuracies you talk about come from uneven ground! In my garage the machine has to be in the same place, facing the same way...as my garage floor has a very slight fall on it!!! I can predict within 1/4 litre what my fuel will be when I land.....so long as I fly trims in. If I use some trims out then obviously will use more. I have never measured trims out fuel as I don't fly a whole flight like that. Unless you have weighed the fuel in you won't know how accurate the markings are!! most of the machines i have owned and tested have been slightly out... you only have to be 50ml out per Litre to make your 4.5 litre per hour 4.75. 50ml even 100ml spread out over the flat area of the tank i impossible to see so no matter how Flat the surface you put you motor on or how accurate you think the marking are... This is why they weigh fuel out for each pilot at PPG comps... Anyway as long as your happy and never run out of fuel thats all the matters.. Edited March 29, 2018 by Mark Morgan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 I weighed and measure fuel in and out when I first made markings. I am happy to go by my markings. On the XL nitro with 19m freeride, me currently at 82kg, I burn 3lph, flying gently. The tornado is not an XC machine, its for slalom, big guys wanting a light weight motor anyone wanting big power in a light package. bigger CC will burn more fuel than the nitro. If you really want XC, consider the XL nitro. Its a way to get more thrust and economy at the same time from the existing engine. Majority of pilots I know fly 1-2 hours max. per flight. most are not brimming the fuel tank unless some special circumstance, competition, large xc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 On 4/12/2018 at 04:30, custom-vince said: I weighed and measure fuel in and out when I first made markings. I am happy to go by my markings. On the XL nitro with 19m freeride, me currently at 82kg, I burn 3lph, flying gently. The tornado is not an XC machine, its for slalom, big guys wanting a light weight motor anyone wanting big power in a light package. bigger CC will burn more fuel than the nitro. If you really want XC, consider the XL nitro. Its a way to get more thrust and economy at the same time from the existing engine. Majority of pilots I know fly 1-2 hours max. per flight. most are not brimming the fuel tank unless some special circumstance, competition, large xc etc. From what I understand, the Nitro XL gets better fuel burn than the Nitro. So by that logic the Tornado XL will get better fuel burn than the Tornado. So I wonder how the Tornado XL will end up comparing to the regular Nitro, especially with its larger and more efficient prop? For me, I am intrigued by the big power of the Tornado. I want to be able to get up high as quickly as possible (especially because I have a lot of big mountains and deep valleys around me, so getting up and over (and out of) those quickly is important to me). However, beyond that, there's tons and tons of opportunities for me to take 100-200 mile XC trips regularly. If I end up going with a Tornado, it's gonna be the XL version. And with that I'm gonna get the 15.5L fat tank. So depending on positive flying conditions, if I can get ~70 miles per tank while flying conservatively, then I'll be happy with that. The alternative for me that I'm interested in is the Nitro XL with the 15.5L tank. But as of right now, I'm more interested in the Tornado XL. But if the Tornado XL ends up offering terrible range even with the fat tank, then I'll probably just end up going with the Nitro XL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 So if the XL burns 5l per hour and we have a 15.5l tank, and are flying at 30mph (48kph) does that mean we can conceivably cover 90 miles (144km) per tank at that speed and at that rate of fuel burn? Is it just that simple or am I overlooking something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatumdale Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Any update @custom-vince on the machine? Seen you post on FB so eager to learn more: approx price (I think you mentioned £6.6k) options eg clutch etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted April 29, 2018 Author Share Posted April 29, 2018 A news release is coming soon. I shouldn’t speak out of turn. There’s an added bonus to watch for all I can say right now. News may come direct from AC or Aviator, maybe with a video, see how they go. Just have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, tatumdale said: Any update @custom-vince on the machine? Seen you post on FB so eager to learn more: approx price (I think you mentioned £6.6k) options eg clutch etc Jesus, that price is close to $2000 more than the Nitro, if my conversion was correct. If that's true, what happened to the "Around $500 or so more" that was talked about (unofficially) about 6-8 months ago? It's well known that it was gonna be more than the Nitro, but man, I hope it's not that extreme. $500 for 80cc more seemed fair, if not a bit much, but $2000! Yikes. Edited April 30, 2018 by The80s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonhunny Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 11 hours ago, The80s said: Jesus, that price is close to $2000 more than the Nitro, if my conversion was correct. If that's true, what happened to the "Around $500 or so more" that was talked about (unofficially) about 6-8 months ago? It's well known that it was gonna be more than the Nitro, but man, I hope it's not that extreme. $500 for 80cc more seemed fair, if not a bit much, but $2000! Yikes. I guess its good old demand & supply, get people to stop wetting themselves & adding to the hype of it & maybe some sensible pricing will arrive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 Still no actual prices listed, that example price is £600 more than current Nitro, theres more to it than just an engine. Other changes, all prices are about to change with new developments. Things get dearer as they get better & there will be a cheaper option available, plus probably a dearer option. We are finalising details. This engine is still yet to be released, prices yet to be confirmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 With the monetary policy last 12 months the EUR/GBP have went up 4,5%, but don't complain, the EUR/SEK have gone up over 10% in the same time About a month extra saving for nothing extra compared to one year ago, but the same counts for every paramotor made in the euro-zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) Eric Farewell also mentioned that he was getting about 5.5lph consumption/burn on the regular Tornado with a 16m Freeride. So I assume it will burn more with a heavier pilot under a bigger wing, is that most likely right? So if the regular burns 5.5lph (for Eric's weight/wing size) any guess as to what the XL will burn? Edited May 2, 2018 by The80s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 The video news update for Tornado 280 from Aviator. Plus a couple of other goodies. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Harcourt Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I just watched the video, I note you got a mention re the new v2 frame.... Any chance of a scoop? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Scott Harcourt said: I just watched the video, I note you got a mention re the new v2 frame.... Any chance of a scoop? Thanks. Looks smooth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 The R2 Titanium Race Version 2. Some photos of the changes above. This machine was pre-ordered with quick release arms. They come in this new style, custom made shank thread, seems to work well. Standard arm fitting also use a shank bolt for greater security. The top 3 horizontal bars behind the harness are curved inwards towards engine. This does a number of things. Comfort is improved, Mass is moved further aft and closer to engine, the engine mounts are then shorter, it’s a great way to get pilot and engine nearer without compromising safety, it increases forward space on the weight shift arms and allows the hook point position to sit more natural. The harness attachment point has been raised. This is a clever way to align the thrust mass with the pilot mass, lowering the push point on your back while not upsetting the weight shift connection and existing excellent thrust line. Results are that the thrust more central to your back with zero pitching, less pushing over on launch, the weight shift arms and hook in is lower giving the pilot more room under their arms. The other change it causes is the weight of the machine will sit a little lower when standing and launching, it’s a light machine so not a massive difference plus we just brought the mass nearer the pilot, the bottom of the frame sticks out more than before, this is not good for aerodynamics but with the optional airbag it works well and getting seated is easier. Some trade offs but on the whole positive I feel. The top of the harness is also secured in place with 2 holders. Heel protection bars are now double for improved safety for taller and shorter pilots. The weak link alloy join is also double riveted and is more secure with no wobble adding to overall stiffness. Main switch is moved to side in a hip location. Also a new size. Standard is 140cm hoop for 125cm props Large is 150cm hoop for 3x 135cm prop or squeeze in 140cm XL 165cm is still delta style frame with 150cm prop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Is it a big difference to forward launch with the bigger cages, like 150 cm and the 165cm XL compared to say a "normal" 130 cm or 140 cm cages? I've never tried a big cage. But if 135cm three or four blade is the way to go to harness to power, then I guess it's a reason to go big. Overall the new cage design looks good. Oh, and I must say that the TIG welding on the new frame looks very good, something I didn't like on the first delta frame I saw some years ago it wasn't horrible (crater pipes), Everything improves! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Bigger prop bring increase in power, improved economy and lower noise especially at level flight due to lower rpmof engine and prop. I haven’t launched the 150 yet, I doubt that will feel any different to the 140 i have forward launched the XL a few times now, reversed it once so far. Initially it felt bigger for sure but now I don’t notice it, not sure what changed but my technique improved, I don’t really think about it and proceed as normal like any forward launch. My lighter ozone launches easier, that’s a change as I initially flew a different wing. I think a slow rising wing you would notice more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, custom-vince said: Bigger prop bring increase in power, improved economy and lower noise especially at level flight due to lower rpmof engine and prop. I haven’t launched the 150 yet, I doubt that will feel any different to the 140 i have forward launched the XL a few times now, reversed it once so far. Initially it felt bigger for sure but now I don’t notice it, not sure what changed but my technique improved, I don’t really think about it and proceed as normal like any forward launch. My lighter ozone launches easier, that’s a change as I initially flew a different wing. I think a slow rising wing you would notice more. You've flown the Tornado XL? Do you know if the XL will come to market at the same time as the regular Tornado? Also, will the V2 frames (Race, Magnesium) come with all Tornados and Nitros from this point forward? Or must they be specifically requested upon purchase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 Magnesium frame is delta shape and all frames forward will be magnesium for nitro & tornado. 140cm and XL 165cm The titanium Race v2 (R2) will be used from this point forward for all nitro and tornado engines. This is available 140cm and 150cm Im not sure the XL tornado will be available on release as that requires different reduction ratio to be setup. I haven't flown any tornado as yet. I was referring to XL nitro. I have left all tornado testing to AC, TF and Erics guys in US. they have the weather to get the hours of flying in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chrisg547 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Do you know if the 150cm will come with a clutch or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 Both. E.start and e.start with clutch. My understanding is the 150 frame is same reduction ratio, just a prop pitch change where as the 165 frame has a new reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 On 5/4/2018 at 04:40, custom-vince said: Magnesium frame is delta shape and all frames forward will be magnesium for nitro & tornado. 140cm and XL 165cm Any idea how the Magnesium frame compares to the aluminum frame if you bend it? I guess it's basically over for the Aluminum frame once you bend it. Is the Magnesium one purely just more resistant to bending but you still can't bend it back, or is it able to be bent back? Official: $8400 base price for the Magnesium Tornado. Add roughly $1000 for the Titanium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Looks and sounds amazing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) Sweet! Any word on delivery dates yet? Last I heard, Eric said "End of June." Anything since then? Edited June 12, 2018 by The80s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonhunny Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 On 13/06/2018 at 09:05, The80s said: Sweet! Any word on delivery dates yet? Last I heard, Eric said "End of June." Anything since then? I think its the 12th of never....Been coming for years this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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