custom-vince Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) I have been holding my breath for months, not being able to talk about this new engine. Very excited, it is not for everyone, it is also not replacing the Nitro. We feel the majority of pilots suit the Nitro 200. This new engine the Tornado 280 is breaking new ground again. Larger capacity bore and stroke giving 35hp is going to be great for larger pilots finally wanting a light weight engine. Launched on the weekend at the U.S. Beach Blast 2017 to a fair bit of Facebook chatter. Public sales will start in September. I hope to have one end of June. It has been in thorough testing since 2016, flown in various climates in other countries. While the layout looks very similar, many parts are upgraded to account for the extra power. Who is it aimed at? It's going to reach out to the slalom guys on hankies, plus larger pilots who can then fly normal wing sizes while wanting to carry less weight.Ultimately I hope it could help push the whole sport forward for everyone. With more power it is easier to fly smaller wings, go further in less time. I can already easily launch and live with a wing smaller than I used to fly. With more power I can drop a size again. I'm on 19m as a 13.5 stone pilot. Some friends fly 15-17m easily, not crazed slalom nutters. So, How light is it? much the same weight as the Nitro. The Tornado 280 is 11.7kg for the pull start version. Available as electric start and electric start with clutch. (electric start one about 12.2kg, I don't have exact numbers yet) Thrust? 125cm props are working well and it can also run on the 150cm XL prop for maximum power. A few more combinations to try before a number is put out there. Edited May 23, 2017 by custom-vince 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas_whitmore Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Air conception are not slow at going forward' that's for sure . cas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just wow, from my understanding the nitro 200 have been a reliable engine so far, right? But a bigger engine with the same weight must have less material somewhere else. The obvious question is, will it be as reliable as the nitro? Or are there other factors like lower rpm for a certain power output that might help to make it last even longer? Anyway, this is really interesting, and I hope to see some videos of it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 all good questions. Yes the nitro has proven very reliable. I can only hope the Tornado is just as good. It is built on proven method, all though the 280 is the same weight as the 200, the parts are not thinner, many parts have been beefed up. Careful choice of materials which I think will reflect in the price. We will all have to wait and see. This much power and cc is breaking new ground for our market. Flying level at lower rpm is sure going to help reliability as does flying a 200 at lower rpm vs 100cc at higher rpm. What will go against that is the bigger pilots and smaller wings so the engine will get just as much thrashing as any other cared for paramotor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chrisg547 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Hey Vince... Will that only be available on the AC frame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 Yes only AC, that's my understanding at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) I'm super excited about this motor. Using it with the 150cm prop sounds like the right combo as well, at least for my goals. My primary area of interest with paramotor is sight seeing/cross country, but I'd like to have something with excellent power and thrust to easily get me up and over the big hills and mountains in my area. Hopefully the fuel consumption will turn out to be pretty good as well as I'd like to be able to make 60+ mile (96km) trips to explore. I don't know if 100 miles (160km) per flight is realistic or not, but that would be great. I weigh roughly 215lbs (97kg) so hopefully this will be the right choice. As for wings to go with it, right now I'm looking at the MojoPWR, Roadster 2, or Spyder. Can't wait. This may very well be my first paramotor purchase. If all goes as planned, I'll be getting my training done sometime around September, so maybe that's a sign. Edited June 11, 2017 by The80s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 I think the Tornado XL may be to much power to look at beginning with. Correct sized spyder you would be fine with a nitro. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) A couple of Tornado pics from Parafest Tornado 280 by Surfer Vince, on Flickr Edited July 4, 2017 by custom-vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 Comparing Nitro to Tornado Tornado 280 by Surfer Vince, on Flickr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 On display Tornado 280 by Surfer Vince, on Flickr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) I wonder if this thing will be more powerful than the Thor 250? Edited July 16, 2017 by The80s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 On 16/07/2017 at 06:35, The80s said: I wonder if this thing will be more powerful than the Thor 250? Doubt it!!! and i doubt it will return anywhere near the same fuel burn.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 I would agree in part. Thrust is looking to be right there and more with bigger prop. Thor250 is water cooled vs air cooled tornado. I would expect real world fuel burn to be 3.5 - 5 lph cruising about. No hard facts on performance yet, keep that in mind. Thor250 has shown good economy with careful tuning The engine weight of the unit I had complete with rubber engine mounts, spark plug, prop plate and bolts 11.8kg on my scales. I have seen it weighed at 11.4kg, I think that was without engine mounts. At that weight, a complete Air Conception Tornado 280 will come in at 19kg Thats breaking new ground for power to weight and that's its aim. Thor250 engine alone is 22.8kg dry (without liquid in the radiator) but will likely burn less fuel. It will be the pilots choice, how they fly, heavier machine with less fuel burn (competent XC pilot looking for max eco) or the light weight option (me, other fun flyers, maybe slalom guys, pilots hungry for power to weight) we will see, it's a new direction. do you think it will encourage advanced pilots to fly even smaller wings, larger pilots to fly normal sized wings. I think it will make a great tandem machine, I really notice motor weight on the ground with flying tandem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Less than a month until September! I hope you're still on track for release then. Or at the very least an update on specs and info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 It sounds like release to dealers only in september. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 From Laurent: TORNADO 280 RELEASE UPDATE While fine tuning the Tornado we managed to gain more power, so now we update the drive pulley to handle the extra power. All while keeping the linear throttle response. Improving our product and with rigorous hours testing phase, we have a slight delay of 3 months till release of our new engine which will come with 2 years warranty just as other Air Conception products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 And on that there will be 2-3 months on the waiting list to get one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 IDK. I guess it depends on how badly people want one. I for one am extremely interested, so we'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully the price for the unit is reasonable. I expect it to be more than the Nitro, but hopefully it's not a ridiculous amount more. I can't imagine they'd charge an extra $1000 for only an 80cc difference. Hopefully it's more in the $250-$500 range extra. Laurent seemed to hint in one of his facebook posts on the AC page that the regular Tornado (125/130cm prop) wouldn't have 100kg of thrust, but that the Tornado XL (150cm prop) would. It'll be interesting to see if it actually hits close to that. That would certainly make it nice for pilots flying at higher altitude and carrying a bunch of extra weight (in terms of gear). Also, the ability to keep it at lower RPMs throughout the flight would be nice too. That's exactly what I'm looking for. On the same facebook page Eric Farewell said that more news is coming "super soon" so hopefully we'll hear some solid info in the next week or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 Yes so far its hints and speculation and I am not about to confirm anything either. I understand though you are pretty much correct on every account Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemberg Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Promising! I'm a bit hesitant to be an early adopter but hard to resist this one. Good to see that it is progressing Edited October 23, 2017 by Hemberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) 2 years warranty, so who cares? I just want one as soon as possible. Edit: that climb in the video is sick! Edited October 23, 2017 by Casper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Vince, care to explain the difference with the acro arms vs the standard on the air conception? Is 16mm cage standard on the titanium, or is it the 12mm? Is the 12mm flimsy compared to the 16mm? The vibration mounts, have anyone tried with the viking ppg engine mounts on the nitro? was there a big difference? Apco split vs AC/sup'air. Is there a big difference in the weight shift/fun factor? Worth to get both? Will it land above or below ~£6500 with e-start and clutch? What would be the biggest upgrade you could do to an Air Conception when you have purchased one? I'm getting really hungry for this one now... had 17 hours overtime last week just for this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andre_74 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Casper said: 2 years warranty, so who cares? I just want one as soon as possible. Edit: that climb in the video is sick! Yeah - a lot of power for a steep climb. A few of these might end up in a climb/stall/dive/in-the-dirt scenario in the wrong hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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