nigel_d. Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 In a moment of extreme boredom I was silly enough to have a look on Dells group. Almost immediately I,m finding myself casting doubts on my Nucleon because of Dell still going on about reflex death-traps and the K2 "wonder-wing" that out performs such wings ie it flys faster/slower, glides better, easier to launch/land etc and is safer when it does collapse - even on fast trim and speedbar. Now can anyone here confirm these performance claims? Cant see it myself but the niggle has been planted. Cheers Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digidydawg Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Nige do you not find it odd that the manufactures website makes absolutely no mention of the K2 as a 'paramotor' wing. Not one word, not one picture!!! I'm no aeronautical engineer but I can guess that there are some different forces involved with paragliding as opposed to powered paragliding ....... things that make you go hmmmmmmm:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Not saying you're wrong or anything.....bottom of page http://en.sky-cz.com/products/gliders/cima-k2/ Been flying the Sky Atis 2 for 3 years and 5 months now. Still my favourite. Not worn out yet. Not as fast as the Nucleon though. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Each glider is delivered with: free T-shirt SKY Kiwi I want one ! SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbertflyer Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Very old wing design from 2005, an aspect ratio significantly smaller than most modern ENA wings, just 42 cells and painfully slow at certified weight limits (max 45kph), yet owners love the wing? Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Well, I missed out on any teeshirt deal in 2008, Simon. But I'm not attracted by sales gimmicks anyway My rather old design, Atis 2, cores thermals beautifully and has a great feel to fly. I never said anything about staying within the weight range Richard. To keep up with a Revo one, of the same size I was nearl 40 kgs over placard weight and added trimmers. ( And it still glided better, used less fuel, and was harder to stall, and generally inspired a lot more confidence ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digidydawg Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 OH! ....... my mistake ....... how could I have missed that glowing endorsement at the very bottom of the page added on as like an afterthought .... and it's not even the company's endorsement, it's Dells ..... kinda reads like: 'Glider Cima K2 is very popular also for wiping your ass. Please look at some videos from major ass wipe Dell Schanze in Videos folder." I apologise to all K2 fliers, I really have no idea on whether the wing is any good or not. I just detest the way Dell does business so there's a bit of 'guilty by association' ....... I must have too much time on my hands right now because I'm wasting ink commenting on Dell! sowwy:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 No worries digidydawg.....you waste as much ink as you like. Probably better not to give him the airtime though. I too find "his" marketing over the top. But I wouldn't let it irritate me. When you're flying a wing that you enjoy and a decent motor, all those niggles seem to melt away. As distastefull as some of us find him, he didn't sell me a 34 kg machine with poor thrust/weight and fuel consumption of 9 ltrs/hour and I haven't had to go back to the clown for a new prop. I bought some gear. I like flying it. Nuf said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_d. Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Thankyou gentlemen for your valued input. I think my Nucleon won't ever collapse, but if it did I would probably wish I had a pair of brake handles in my hands not tip toggles! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko330 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 hey a friend of mine bought and flys the k2 and i pinched it from him for an hour. i gave it some right stick a real good leathering and fully enjoyed every minute of the flight, it is very responsive wing thats stupidly easy to launch. you give it a hand full and it begs for more with out shooting clean over your head and collapsing, i would recommend one to anyone, easy to use and safe to fly, yes there a little slow on the guide line rates and i was a little over that, well actually a lot over that, about 35kgs but i didnt have to run any harder or land any faster than when on any other wing ive flown and the climb rate was good. in my eyes it takes out the hassle of another thing to worry about weather or not your wings in the correct position before applying power because with the k2 its always in the right place to power on ! p.s i dont work for dell, i fly a dakota sport and of course this is just my humble opinion but i HAVE flown one which allows me to do so mj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Thanks for your review Marko Would you buy one ? Now I'm just going to sit back and watch you get shot down Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnrw Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Marko333, How does it compare to your dokota sport? Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Thanks for your review Marko Would you buy one ? Now I'm just going to sit back and watch you get shot down Dave Who is going to do that? the only people that can comment constructively are people that have flown one / own one. Everyone is allowed there own opinion of course, but something I remember my dad telling me as a kid.... "Take as much advice as you can, but only from people who have the experience to give it." I guess that translates to, many people will give advice based on something they have heard or read. At the end of the day the only people who know, are the people who have. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko330 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 great advice simon, farther knows best ! regards would i buy one ? yes i would. a no hassle user friendly wing has got to be worth the money. and how does it compair to my lovley dakota sport hhmmmm a hard one that. i would have to say the dakota is a pedigree wing thats manufactured by one of the fore farthers in paragliding as a sport and wing design + manufacture. when i tested the k2 i flew my dakota then clipped straight into the brand new k2 and although over the weight range it seemed to have a little more lift strangely ? it felt snappier in the turns but less forgiving in the spirals and on really heavy wing overs i felt the brakes go light a couple of times. you do NOT of course get any of this with the dakota sport. it feels absolutely 100 percent 100 percent of the time no matter what you throw at it, but that said its has got a lot more pedigree. i like flying other wings just to remind me just how good my trusty old itv is with its 300hrs on it it still feels like an old friend and i cant help but smile when i drag it out of its bag for another adventure in the skys ! on another note i have just purchased a jojo instinct £1800 which i will do a review on as soon as i get the chance to give it some stick and let you know what my findings were. there the right money but are they the right wing. i'll soon find out ! thanks marko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbosmeggins Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 on another note i have just purchased a jojo instinct £1800 which i will do a review on as soon as i get the chance to give it some stick and let you know what my findings were. there the right money but are they the right wing. i'll soon find out ! thanks marko Just wondered what the verdict was on the jojo instinct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Not saying you're wrong or anything.....bottom of page http://en.sky-cz.com/products/gliders/cima-k2/ Been flying the Sky Atis 2 for 3 years and 5 months now. Still my favourite. Not worn out yet. Not as fast as the Nucleon though. Dave One thing I don't like is that Sky post this: "Glider Cima K2 is very popular also for paramotor flying. Please look at some videos from Dell Schanze in Videos folder" I always thought they were trying to distance themselves from him. Totally surprised to see them post this as I was reading from the link you sent (wow....I really never thought they would promote him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 In a moment of extreme boredom I was silly enough to have a look on Dells group. Almost immediately I,m finding myself casting doubts on my Nucleon because of Dell still going on about reflex death-traps and the K2 "wonder-wing" that out performs such wings ie it flys faster/slower, glides better, easier to launch/land etc and is safer when it does collapse - even on fast trim and speedbar.Now can anyone here confirm these performance claims? Cant see it myself but the niggle has been planted. Cheers Nige I did the same but then had to look at the facts. Go into the certs and review them factually. what you will find is a difference of 1 -1.5sec and 30deg. Can you live with that for the speed? Cima AFNOR Standard Cert You have a standard mountain wing (easy launch, light, slow with good maneuverability) A DHV 1 to 1-2 Paraglider. I have a Gin 1-2 that is the same for all intensive purposes. I've changed the risers and wow handles like a sports car just don't try to cover any ground. Nuc Classification C Reflex glider that will launch not bad, give you a speed range no paraglider can and will perform not bad in general. I have a few people here that can not afford a new glider. So they are flying older paraglider type non reflex wings. At 10kns they have about 1-2k penetration. At 10kns I'm in a 29m on the light side and at 0 trim. What do we always give up for speed? safety everytime. It's always been that way in this sport. However I think personally the reflex technology has done a good job at giving us 65K and good safety. I think the strategy in general for Reflex has been to provide a paramotor pilot both speed and safety Clip yourself into a Paraglider that is certified with a top end of 65k (Gin BoomX). Prime example of speed for safety. One more point you can always go way over the weigh range and take a K2 and other non reflex gliders to new speeds thinking your safe. oh oh hold on now..... if you get a collapse its going to be severe and more dramatic due to the added energy of the weight and speed hemmmmm in a collapse situation how is it going to behaving now? In c class or maybe worse? The wing was not designed to fly under these conditions. Don't let media and BS fool you..... One thing dell is right about if your in reflex mode and low to the ground you can not get extra lift by pulling the breaks you will need to pull the wing tip steering and they don't provide lift. So don't fly low dragging you feet in reflex mode lol. When I drag the feet in water I'm always in no or zero on the nuc. Other bit of BS he likes to show is the reflex collapses on full speed bar. Any glider I mean any is dangerous in full speed bar. On my Gin DHV 1-2 I can hit the speed bar and fly in a straight line waiting for any turbulence to cause a frontal. Happens all the time, Gradient 2 is famous for this (most guys only use half bar) Lets see the Dell do the spin on speed bar..... you will never see this because it can't and should not be done due to the low angle of attach and the risk of collapse that brings. BS tends to baffle brains, my rant (I'm I wrong?) T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 ... if your in reflex mode and low to the ground you can not get extra lift by pulling the breaks you will need to pull the wing tip steering and they don't provide lift. Have to disagree with you there Tom, but pulling the brakes will lose some or all of the reflex profile. ...and anyway you wouldn't be low to the ground without the brakes in your hands would you Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 ... if your in reflex mode and low to the ground you can not get extra lift by pulling the breaks you will need to pull the wing tip steering and they don't provide lift. Have to disagree with you there Tom, but pulling the brakes will lose some or all of the reflex profile. ...and anyway you wouldn't be low to the ground without the brakes in your hands would you Cheers, Alan We are in agreement. Dell touts that when you are in reflex mode and close to the ground if you pull the brakes to get a little lift you are dead....for this reason they are death traps. My point is why would you be in Relex mode close to the ground? same as you. Its just BS Thats why in me next few lines I said "So don't fly low dragging you feet in reflex mode lol. When I drag the feet in water I'm always in no or zero on the nuc. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finding0 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 exactly how slow is slow for the k2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 My point is why would you be in Relex mode close to the ground? Perfectly acceptable (and fun) to fly low in full reflex and speedbar on the Nuc, as you can simply ease off the bar to climb. Landing is also OK in full reflex as you just bleed off the energy into a long flare. Not recommended for beginners though..... exactly how slow is slow for the k2 Trim speed 22-45 km/h. .... unless of course you fly it overloaded, in which case it is a totally uncertified wing .... If you want speed there are newer options available that provide speed and safety in a certified weight range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Marco, if you get the chance try a Boxer also from ITV its a simple but well designed wing. not to compare to your reflex but a pleasant surprise. As for flying low in reflex, yes I do now I'm on the GTR it is possible to use full brakes in reflex, I feel there is a new age coming in reflex designs. Other reflex wing I would not, and revert to neutral or takeoff trim. I would hope or even expect the advancements made with gtr will filter down to the other models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitaliy Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Hello everyone! I would like to leave my comments about K2. For the last couple of years I've been flying Dudek Syntesis and Ozon Rush. 2 weeks ago tried to fly K2 and fell in love with this wing. Bought it and can't wait when it will be delivered. This wing's got sooo many advantages: very light, safe, responsive, easy take off and landings. Regardless what others say about Dell (he is bully, salesman but he is a great pilot) but K2 is nothing to do with him. This is a best wing I ever flown so far and would recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartasutherland Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 My mate has a K2. It is very light and very easy to launch, but we can't really go anywhere together as even on my slow trims he can't keep up. I fly a Synthesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabcam Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Hi Guys, I've been flying a K2 for 4 years now, It does everything Dell says it can do... Easy launch, very stable and predictable in all conditions, super light weight. Yep, it's not the fastest wing up there, but if I'd wanted to go places quickly, I'd have bought a Cessna...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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