Vauxscott Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I'm looking for a second opinion on a possible issue I've uncovered. After having extremely poor service from Bailey I decided to buy a Parajet Zenith frame to put my Bailey motor into. My motor is a V3 180, not new but very limited use, less than 30 hours on it and it runs lovely. The Zenith frame is a work of art, but was never fitted with a V3 motor. It came supplied with mounts and tank brackets to suit a Bailey v5 motor so I've had to make a new engine mounting plate from correct spec material. I used the dimensions available from the Bailey site to map out my bolt holes while lining my prop centre with the V5 mount which I have. Now that I have it mounted it seems to be offset to the left by around 10mm. Is this a torque compensation element or have I made a cock up and the prop should be in the centre of the cage? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nforster Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 i think parajet made a bailey mount plate- ive got a feeling that the fuel tank had altered mounts to make it lower to fit. speak to parajet to see if they can send you a technical drawing of the mount . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauxscott Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) Yeah I've already got the Bailey bits fitted, but they suit the V5 motor, mine is a v3 with the mounting holes in a slightly different place. Parajet don't do a mount to suit the V3. Any Zenith owners know if the prop sits over to the left a bit? (Looking from the rear) Scott. Edited February 28, 2017 by Vauxscott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 It's not a standard Zenith thing. SW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauxscott Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Thanks Simon, looks like I've cocked up my sums somewhere then...balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 After having extremely poor service your still using the V3 Motor?? Does your V3 have all the latest upgrades? I have to say i still love the V5 engine and i did love my old V3, 180 for XC flying, I also loved my Moster zenith, BUT IMO there are motor and chassis combinations that really shouldn't be... Modern combo's like the Parajet V3 with Top 80 engine?? Fairly heavy chassis with a low power engine when there is a great set up like the Miniplane!! I think that your choice of chassis and engine combo is not going to be that great... WHY?.. The Zentih V5 needs a backing plate as you know pushing the engine further out the back making it feel much heavier and more cumbersome than an alloy classic chassis V3 V5. The V3 and the V4 Bailey engine are even deeper and are allot heavier than the V5, some +3kg @ 18.5kg. The all up weight of your set up is going to hit close to or more than a Mac Fly fitted with a 250 @90kg thrust and 2-3lph!! For the same thrust output you could be flying a 21kg Thor 80 Mac Fly 60kg thrust or a Top 80 with less power but at 19-20kg 50-55kg thrust.. Good luck on your project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauxscott Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 I hear what your saying Morgy and I totally agree. However it's all about budget and forward planning for me, after a poor experience with Bailey I decided to change frame. I would have loved to buy a complete package but my budget doesn't allow for that. I plan to use the V3 motor until I have budget available to upgrade, when I do it will be to a Moster which suits the frame perfectly.Until that time I need to make do with what I have. Ive knocked 2.2kgoff the motor by removing the charging circuit and fitting a lipo pack. That battery is a heavy lump! The V3 Zenith combo will feel heavy that's for sure, but it's only heavy on the ground! Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Personally i would advertise the V3 motor for sale and just buy a SH Moster.. The price difference won't be that far out.. Plus if you have not had the Crank upgrades on the V3 your going to in for min £500 if it goes pop and will loose that motor for 3-4-5 months!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noddyc Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Hi Scott You said your prop is out by 10mm . Did you allow for the offset on your excentric shaft when you tighten up your V - belt. I had the exact same issue when I fitted my twin cylinder JPX on a zenith frame. I set it up on the center line and the excentric took it out by around 10mm. I am flying it like that , no issues and no torque steering. Casey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Nice one Casey! That will be it I recon SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauxscott Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Casey! You are my hero. I'm in the garage at 7 in the morning checking that out and your right. If I ever meet you I owe you a few beers. This forum is awesome, there's always someone who has seen an issue before. Scott. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 So you can put a face to the name: in this video 02:30 is a good place to start 'something of a funky hair doo' appears, then again with two thumbs up shortly after. That's @noddyc (casey) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asquaddie Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) !!! Did not know 'Casey' or 'Noddyc' was Tim. Well done Tim All these 'other' names gets really perplex when you're old Old Git Edited March 3, 2017 by asquaddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauxscott Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Got the motor finished off today and run it up. Certainly feels heavy but not unmanageable. Run for about 10 minutes at a range of throttle settings, all bolts rechecked for torque, nothing came loose or fell off so I'm calling it a success! Need to do a hang test before committing aviation. Was thinking about using the swings at the local park but I'd get some funny looks... Ill post a few pics once I work out why the upload keeps failing. Scott. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 How much do you weigh? I am only 73kg and had to have the hang point almost all the way back on my zenith with Moster classic.. I hope all your hard work pay's off for you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauxscott Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 I'm 88kg, With the heavier engine now fitted it's definitely worth checking properly. I'll use the roof beams in the garage and a long ratchet strap. Should work fine, but if I'm not back on here it probably means I've pulled the roof down on myself... Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noddyc Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Scott Hope your hang test went better than mine. Mine was hanging over a round pipe, which was on the edge off another pipe , with the floor covered in junk. I said to myself :DO NOT LEAN BACK ******* Got in the seat and started dreaming about taking it flying !!!!! I forgot that detaiI while I was seated , ended up with my legs in the air between a lot of stuff when my support came adrift. Took a while to get out of that mess !!!!!!!! Up to this day I still can't remember if the hang test was successful !!!! at least I was flying , however short that was !!!!!!!!!!!! Casey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauxscott Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Sounds like an interesting day!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauxscott Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Well my hang test didn't go to plan... turns out the Zenith doesn't have enough travel on the hang points to suit my engine. Even in the rear holes on the arms it's still borderline, and I can't get my arms through the swing arms... Seems a V3 is just too heavy, not only that but the weight is too far back on the Zenith frame. Looks like my hunt for a Moster engine has started early! This has been a load of work, but hopefully nobody else will waste their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 That's annoying I guess you would need to be heavier for it to work but if you were, the engine would soon run out of power. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Not to say I told you so.. The Zenith does not have enough Adjustment for most of the heavy Engines for the lighter Pilots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I was waiting for that I know little Jamie had issues when upping the engine size. The Zenith is great if you match the engine to your weight, Although that said, the 180 in the zenith works well for me @75kg and so does the 80lc (with the hang points in the same place, so not like it's grams we're talking. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vauxscott Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yep, I was waiting for that too! I had to at least try though... At least I didn't find out just after launching, that would have been a story. Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 . i would try test flight i fitted v2 bailey to wasp frame im 95kg.done hang test then test flew it i was on back hole on the minari arms.on hang test in garden,had to move 2 holes forward after first test flight ,flys perfect now.you could buy wasp frame best valve for money frame about and keep your engine.or try different arms on zenith the minari arms are not as radical as the zeniths swan necks,it might work for you.how do you upload pics on here Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi k Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Andy you getting on well with your new wasp frame now then ??, i liked the look of it and they are very reasonably priced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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