matt_k Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Has anyone ever experienced a collapse of any kind in full reflex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 here you go.... [youtubevideo] [/youtubevideo] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_k Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 i think ive seen this before, was it done on purpose? i mean was he doing something he shouldnt have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommcb6016 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I bet that got his heart pumping! Comments on the video seem to think it was either caused by: Use of speed bar with trims fully in? or using brakes in full reflex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 do not use speedbar on slow trim or!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Yes, this WAS 'pilot induced' as an experiment. By Tony Gibson from South Africa. Full slow on the trims, (on an action GT) full speed bar, and loads of pulling on the A's. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I have had a few myself... The most dynamic of which was on full speed bar, full fast. It was a full frontal collapse. It popped out in less than a second, I lost 90ft in height. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I saw a guy flying no more than 100ft off the ground have a 50% collapse wich popped back out in a fraction of a second, the other half of his wing came straight in and did the same, it threw him around a bit but he must have lost no more than 20ft in height, when he landed we had to tell him what happened as it had happened so quick he did not have time to look up and see it. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 fhew...... its a good job he wasnt flying at 15ft...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 or Simon wasnt flying at 85ft........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 altitude is your friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I have had a few myself... The most dynamic of which was on full speed bar, full fast. It was a full frontal collapse. SW Is dynamic the same as brown??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Dynamic=adrenaline=brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyraider Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Flew Old Orchard Beach in Maine a month ago and the return trip was a cross wind fast trim run (on my Fusion) without wingtip steering lines. Crabbing with left brake on fast trim had the wingtip pulsing in and out in gradient. There was minimal forward speed without fast trim after the wind picked up and the choice was to land out or be vigilant of the impending collapse. Will not omit the stabilo line steering on a high hang point machine again, even if the wind on take off is favorable like this trip was. Using brake on fast trim is a no no i know know, won't happen again because I installed an Epsilon 4 big ears kit for wingtip steering. Thanks to Todd who could be on the R&D team at any shop. tipsteer on fast, Marko D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Marko, fit an ALC system and you'll wonder why we ever bothered with tip steering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyraider Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Yes I am very fond of the ALC steering and also the TST setup, and the pilots who dare to experiment. Being a bit of a follower, I normally consider any mods should be made by the manufacturer when it comes to wings, we will see if the Prussic knot goes from the factory issue. Kudos to Dudek for implementing the ALC and more Kudos to Mr Carnet for breaking the ice. The knot scares me that's all, same for brake handles through a non-netted cage...the smallish risk need NOT be there. Scaredicat, Marko D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 The very first attempt at ALC was on a Revolution! That wing is still flying with ALC today and my Revo will have it fitted as soon as I get round to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardc Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Fanman I am sure it has been mentioned before on the forum but not sure where! Can you point me in the right direction, or advise, about the ALC system you are using on the Revolution. I never got on with the tip steerers (always seemed to be in the way) and would be interested to find out more about any alternatives. Cheers Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Yes, will do as soon as I can get on my laptop. Only have phone right now which is too painful to type a lengthy reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 (edited) The first thing to say about doing the ALC mod is that it is taking the wing away from its certification so it is something that you do at your own risk having understood all the implications for yourself. ALC uses a single separate line to be able to operate the outermost part of the brakes leaving the central majority of the trailing edge fully reflexed. The upper attachment is to a suitable brake cascade (I plan to use the connection where ES3 joins ET9 and ET10 which is where the outermost tertiary brake lines go up from the outermost secondary brake line). Production Dudek wings use a higher outer cascade but I find their ALC less responsive than when I have attached one cascade lower down. Dudek take this new line down to a height adjustable red ball before the line then ties on to a length of black elastic. The elastic goes through a small metal ring at the base of the B riser, then up through another metal ring at the top of the B riser before coming back to the lower ring again where it is tied off. The reason for this elastic is that the trim can then be extended or shortened while the elastic maintains the correct line tension. As the attachment is on the B riser, if you didn't have the elastic then the effect of letting out trim would be to apply both outer brakes. Edited July 15, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 There is a slightly simpler way of rigging the lower end of the ALC lines. Instead of rigging the line via elastic through rings to the B line it can be connected to the trim tab buckle area. It will sit a little higher but as long as it is at the buckle or above it will not be affected by trim position. This simplifies the set up on the risers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardc Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Thanks for the info, just trying to get my head around it at the moment. Regards Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 The effect of the ALC is that it gives you a different feel to the turn. I always find that turn using tip steering is very draggy causing a ponderous high yaw turn. The ALC gives much more roll than yaw which is much quicker responding feeling more 'fighter' like. Although the principle of the ALC is for use on faster trim settings it works well at all areas of the trim range without disturbing the airfoil shape over the key part of the wing and creating such large amounts of drag as when using regular brakes. If flying low level on fast trim then you can have the brakes in your hands (but unused) while actually using the ALC steering so that if you have an 'oh sh1t' moment then the brakes can be dabbed to avoid sudden unexpected contact with the ground! Dudek wings no longer have TST fitted as standard (no need as ALC is way better) but have revised the principle into TEA (torque effect adjuster). This is a form of TST that can be engaged or disengaged (and latched on) pre-flight or at any point during flight to offset prop torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyraider Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Thanks for the in depth explanation. Other wing manufacturers use a similar steering on reflex wings is this a reasonable statement? The Paramania is not compromisiing reflex with steering at the fastest speeds and someone said this ALC steering does not take the reflex away but this sounds questionable to my unexperienced ear...how do you get to keep the cake and eat it too. Performance - Stability we want them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Not exactly. Tip steering preserves the reflex profile by creating drag at the tips from pulling the stabilo line (outermost B running to the trailing edge of the tip). ALC is using brake to the outside trailing edge (where the wing is more turned down) so yes the reflex is pulled out of this part of the wing when applied but the main load bearing part of the wing is still fully reflexed and resistant to collapse. No other manufacturer is doing production wings with ALC as yet AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.