tommcb6016 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I would be interested in the non race option for sure and maybe the race idea in a few years when i have built up some hours. I have been thinking about flying down to spain for a while anyway with the goal of getting down to skyschools training site near figueres in spain, but the mind boggles at the thought of all the organisation involved so to do it as part of a group would be great ! And for help the heroes or alike too ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asquaddie Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Thumbs down for the race part for me too. I’ve seen the pilots at the Nats this year and it would be throwing that extra bit of your money away. A lot more organising, but maybe the competition can still go ahead and then the non-competition flyers would follow on a different route and still meet up at the same sites in the evenings. That would be an adventure for the majority of us in it's self. Great idea and must be a go'er. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 It is only YOUR frame of mind that makes it a race. If you want to do it just to fly the route, great please do. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Hi Simon I would love to be apart of this holiday/race only having 7 hours ppg now i am not sure i would be in the running to win but i would go just for the crack!! I also think that prize's should be wing's and kit/ motors rather than just money i think you could have more prizes that way and not just for the top 3 teams. Also you could try and run it like a classic car rally where its not all about speed instead its about nav or getting to a gps ref at a certain time or maintaining an average speed etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Low air time (say under 20-hours): easy route, low miles, and so on. Inter (20 - 80 hours) Expert. (80 +) although this would require honesty. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Great ides, And great that thats another team? The problem with prizes is if we have a 'team Bailey for example' they may not be too chuft with a Cyclone. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Yeah that is true! Well i am in just for the holiday and the flying One question sorry if i have missed something when you say team! is it just one pilot and one driver or two pilots one driver?? I for one would rather have a buddy just incase... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommcb6016 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I think i might struggle to find some ground crew and as much as my wife tolerates my paramotoring and alike i doubt she would be interested in following me around france with a jerry can ! Maybe have a few landys and a trailer for a group of low hour pilots. Maybe a couple of high hour/ instructor to make sure we dont get into any trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 this sounds interesting and , it gives plenty reason to get out and clock some hours up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Min per team would be 1 X Pilot and 1X ground crew. Bigger teams will have to share the winnings of course. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druffuk Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Not having yet got into the air I am alittle put off by the race aspect, especially for such a large cash prize, as I feel that I would be at a disadvantage. I would also agree with other sentiments shared on this forum, while many would play the game I'm sure a small minority would take it very seriously and may cut corners in the effort to win and in my view this is when accidents can happen. In my opinion I think the Gumball is a good model for this type of event, and one that is proven. There are no prize money incentives, the teams are competing for the prestigious accolade of ‘Spirit of the Gumball’ Trophy - a prize for the person that embodies the free and fun aspect of the event. Other awards include ‘Most Stylish’, Best Car, etc….and each sponsor awards their own trophy for whatever seems fitting. All participants also receive a trophy for simply participating. It seems that many on here enjoy the social aspect and I think an event of this kind should promote this side of the sport and indeed embody what it is to be a member of the Paramotor Club. Maybe the answer is to run two events together, one for those that want to race and one for those that don't, each flying a slight different route... Just my view as a newbie, no doubt those more experienced pilots will have a better understanding and have a more informed viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Obviously the racing idea is getting some negative vibes! What about making it a more fun and social event as opposed to a race. I mentioned the points system earlier. If there was a committee that came up with some tasks and awarded points to the teams in each task, this may be an idea to consider. Points could be awarded for anything from 'Best forward launch of the day', 'Best landing of the day', 'Shortest route to waypoint' etc etc. May be get points deducted for failed launches or not landing on 2 feet. I think it would also be good for the ground crews to be more involved so that they could earn points aswell. You could even have silly points awarded for the best fancy dressed pilot! I don't know, may be this is all too childish but it would certainly take the race element away but still leave a competition for people to participate in and hopefully enjoy. Finally, although I would go all out to win £15k, I still think this is way too much. I think people would be happy with: 1st £1,000 2nd £500 3rd £250 If I think of anymore great tasks, I'll let you know!!!! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingdoc Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Hi All, This is an excellent idea and has smatterings of 'Those Magnificent Men in their Flying machines' Which was one of the main reasons I got into flying way back in 1979. I understand peoples reservations about the race element and those who don't want to do that bit. My feeling is it would be a lot more like The Great North Run or other half marathons. Everyone is actually competing but because of the numbers most are doing it for the fun of joining in and beating their own previous personal best. I think Simon's previous comment is valid in that it is mental attitude that makes it a race or not and all entrants can do the same tasks without feeling put off by those with more experience. I went to the Nats earlier this year and was very impressed by the fact that not all of the entrants were extremely experienced pilots and those relative beginners were very much appreciated for the efforts involved. Also from a logistical point of view it would be easier to provide excellent ground support if all pilots were flying the same route. Again someone mentioned classic car rallies, with time trials etc. All excellent analogies. If we could combine all these ideas into one grand event with appropriate sponsorship and PR then a great deal of money could be raised for whatever 'good causes' we all agreed to support. All in all a great idea and I would love to be involved both as a pilot and any organisational help that people think would be useful. Fantastic thought Simon. Let's do it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 what about using the 20k to take us over for free?? just have the flight in a more casual way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 well i am all for the race , it gives chance to some serious flying and from what i have learned from this sport it will give reason and purpose. it reminds me of bein a kid in a field with a dirt bike , no real purpose and pretty pointless apart from the fun aspect, ya cant really get anywere on it, and soon grow out of it, and this to me is the same i fail to see a real purpose reason and bringin in some serious reasons for me is what it needs, there is a goal there to be got, rather than flyin ten mile and gaining nothin at the end. i dont know i suppose i am thinkin outloud and i know most are very happy to be having a littlle fly about, but i get bored fast without purpose, so for me id say yes to competitions, with something real to gain at the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyb Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Do we need any 'Extra qualification' to fly in france or 'wing registration' etc ? sounds like a fab idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I am checking into this and will be back to you shortly with a clear clean message. If the licence issue pops up and is not solveable, we have Spain as another option. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_p Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I'm definately up for it, though as others have expressed I'm not interested in the competition aspect. I don't mind flying along whilst the comp is taking place - possibly even better as there will be plenty good pilots to follow! but I realy don't see any justification for a 15 - 20k first prize, imagine what can be done with that sort of cash that would benefit the club. I do not think that a huge prize fund is going to bring in many more pilots than a smaller prize fund, though a 15 grand last night party for everyone probably would Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Personal feeling is that it would be better to organise a non competitive holiday. While there may be some who relish the competition, there will be plenty others put off by it. Dare I also say that competitions tend to bring out the very worst behaviour in people, and with a £20K carrot, the incentive to be less than scrupulous might well be there. Don't judge everyone by your personal standards, there are some real t**ts out there who would go a long way for that prize money, especially if they have had to front up a sizeable wedge of their own, just to be able to take part. By having a relaxed and informal journey of like minded souls, it would still raise the profile and even have the potential to still attract sponsorship. Centralised recovery and help for flyers would reduce the required infrastructure, together with the number of ground crews, desperately trying to get from point x to point y in order to refuel their pilot. That is all not to say that there couldn't be competitive elements, like nav and economy built in, and maybe even a planned day of stick kicking half way through. Phil You do talk a load of sense Phil i am with you on this so here's my take on this why not reduce the cost of the holiday take a small amount of the cash for the club as i feel the benefit of getting so many of us together socialising far out weighs the fact for 20 grand i might just nip out of my tent and try and kill and eat the current leader and the one in second and third and so on as greed tends to rear its ugly head. Any way i am ok at the moment because there's not 20 grand on it lol, but a cracking idea though Simon but for me lose the prize money/ gifts it just does not need it in my opinion, Alan. Edited August 11, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I share Phil's too Alan. Sorry Simon but I believe that such a large pot could become divisive and work counter to flight safety for the odd one or two. The sharpest pilots would probably enter for the cash and the majority could well begin to feel resentment. I wouldn't like to be thinking that my money was going to feed an ego with a greedy pocket; people who are 20% there for the 'crack' and 90% for the cash? Love of the 'crack' would vanish within 200 miles of the finish line - what we would we be left with then? (do the sum lol). That would erode the spirit that everyone enjoys so much in this game imho. Were I taking part I would prefer to see a prize that doesn't bring out the Green Eyed Monster but maybe recovers an individuals costs and brings along a really worthwhile material prize like a wing - a motor at the most. If there could be a contribution to a good cause then that would complete the package for me. You did ask for personal opinions here ... Besides, done well there would be significant costs involved in staging the event. That money must come from somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I think the post that said "put that 15k back into the costs of the trip and make it free " made a lot of sense. If you put that money into the trip, into things like a dedicated ground crew land-rover with trailer (so as to have less ground-crews) and more food on the barbecues at the end of the days flying, then you'd have a legendary trip and a lot of happy (and fat) pilots!! I think the idea of a competition is good, but I also think that majority of pilots on these forums aren't the competitive types. You'd probably get more positive vibes for the competition aspects from talking to the guys that do enter competitions Dont let this negativity dissuade you though Simon...Top marks for a great idea!! It could become an annual event...each year, pick a country...(sort the legals out) and we all do a tour across it. Sounds like awesome fun!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 OK, this is an interesting one. I am quite supprised at the response to the £20k prize offer although I can see your point about the safety aspect as well. It seems as though most of you would be happy with a similar route as a flying holiday with pre arranged stops and BBQ's and so on. I am of course more than happy to arrange this (much simpler idea) BUT I do still feel quite strongly about arranging a race as well for soon after. Having read the posts and PM's and slept on it, and not being someone who faffs about making decisions for too long..... I will begin to arrange this as a holiday ASAP. (For Spring 2010) Thanks to you all for the feedback, the members have spoken and thus it shall be so. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 New Thread http://www.paramotorclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3499 SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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