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Bought second hand Bailey started it first time catastrophic failure 😞


MDMT
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Even if he was/is a genuine seller, the bad luck of it just happening to break after being sold is not the sellers fault. It could just have easily gone bang the last time the seller used it. Only if the seller had heard a strange/wrong noise when last he used it could he have known something was wrong. It is notoriously difficult to hear wrong noises with a paramotor as there is so much other noise going on.

So I am on the side of genuine seller. :)

 

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...or any engine for that matter.

 

I sold my old main air Blade a few years back and the first flight was EFATO!!  Oops.  second flight, third flight, fourth flight...all EFATO.  Something badly wrong yet when I flew it it was always sweet as a nut.  Ya can never tell.

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A mate of mine took delivery of his brand new Lamborghini a few years ago... We were heading out to SPA Race track from Swindon that same day. 

We got as far as Reading (it had about 40-50 miles on the clock before it decided to die) It took them MONTHS to sort it out and get his car back to him. 

As Dave alluded too, If it's an engine (any engine)... It's not a case of IF it's a case of WHEN. 

Sounds like you have had some proper poo luck there :-(, good luck with the re-build! 

SW :D

 

 

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Cheers mark ,The cylinder walls have survived  it’s just took the top of the piston out.  Can you recommend any good suppliers to get the parts from we are having fun contacting Baileys as they want me to send it them and I can fix it myself.  I am struggling to find any parts suppliers please help 

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Taking it to Baileys would be a good option "if" you are comfortable spending some solid cash.
I am at the other end of the scale (cheapskate) and would have a go at tig welding the crown and maybe clocking it to see if it warped the outside diameter (cant see it doing // but who knows).
Also tig the head.
Then I would be looking to only spend on new valves / valve guides / seals.
(are the valve seats damaged?)
Take some measurements and search eBay for GY6 Valves // Guides // etc.
The problem you have is I am pretty sure you have the 57mm stud spacing and not the infinitely more common 54mm stud spacing (studs that hold the head on) so a new head will be a pain in the ass to buy but if the valve seats are badly damaged, repairing them might be a bigger pain in the ass.

I am sure the V5 heads, cylinders, pistons and crank are out of Taiwan (Taida) not particularly cheap!
I'm flying a V2 (54mm stud spacing) so all my parts tend to be available from China... cheap! 

Where in the UK are you?

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Less than 30 mins from me then.
Ill try to PM you my number but in the sprit of the clan helping each other into the air, if we manage to crack this nut, will you post on here how you got on.
Its always a downer when a person vanishes half way through solving their conundrum, especially when I'm in the same shit :) 

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Did you get my number?
I am willing to have a pop at welding and machining that crown (for a packet of chocolate hobnobs) but I am not putting any great weight behind the wisdom of doing such a thing. (it is what I would do had it been my machine though)
Assuming its a 65mm piston its looking like it might cost you £80 + import duty for a new one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCOOTER-GY6-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-TAIDA-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-HI-COMPRESSION-PISTON-65MM/192885448092?hash=item2ce8de5d9c:g:gxkAAOSwbsBXjsDo
Valves for the standard GY6 150cc are dirt cheap but yours might have over-sized valves...?

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Ive just had to do a rebuild on a v3 180. New crank, rod, piston and cylinder.The parts are available for lots of combinations. Just measure what you have and order accordingly. be wary of import tax dues when ordering from abroad, my Taida bits were more expensive than they needed to be...

Bailey will help with gaskets ect, sorted me out quickly.

65mm bits  (V5) seem way more expensive than 63mm bits though (v3) especially in Taida flavour, over £700 as opposed to £130 for the V3 bits.

Scott.

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4 hours ago, Vauxscott said:

65mm bits  (V5) seem way more expensive than 63mm bits though (v3) especially in Taida flavour, over £700 as opposed to £130 for the V3 bits.

Its pretty bad... I got a 63mm cylinder and piston for £48 (none Taida though)

Have you any idea what the failure mode is for the cranks?
I have looked all over for info but cant find it so I am assuming the crank pin slips...?
I am tempted to weld the pin on the one I'm building.

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I think the reason Bailey recalled the early ones for replacement cranks was due to the pin slipping. Welding it would be a good idea and is what I did to mine. It is important to re true it and balance it again after, you'd be surprised by the amount it moves! 

Mine had an oil pump failure and ran the bearings, also damaging the piston and cylinder. I did notice some fairly heavy fretting damage on the crank cooling fan taper, enough to render it scrap even without the bearing damage.

Scott.

 

 

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Yeah it was a standard size one that's fitted.

I will say though that I'm not impressed with the machining Bailey do on the engine casings they make. I found a few large bits of swarf/Burrs on the ends of oilway drillings.I have pics of these and will post them if I can work out how to. The lack of finishing is not good engineering practice. I think one of these broke off, went into the pump and caused the failure my motor suffered.

I'm not sure how the V5 is set up but the V3 has 3 filters, the serviceable Honda one, another mesh cup shaped one you cant get to and a magnet which sits in the oil which you also cant get to.  Having 2 filter/trapping methods which cant be serviced without complete strip down just doesn't seem like good engineering to me...

When I rebuilt mine I removed those extra filters and just have the Honda one now, its the finest mesh of the set and gets changed every 10 hours anyway.

One other thing, when I fitted the new piston on initial runs I was getting excess crankcase pressure and it was causing oil leaks. After a leakdown test pointed to ring damage I stripped it again and found I had fitted the first compression ring upside down. Id read online that the markings face down where in fact the markings face up, making the bevel (really hard to see) face the wrong way. All good now.

 

MDMT, I hope you go for a rebuild yourself. Please post pics of your progress and we will all try to learn at the same time!

 

Scott.

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Vauxscott said:

I think one of these broke off, went into the pump

That makes sense... I was trying to imagine how one of those pumps would fail and I could only imagine them being perfectly happy for thousands of hours :)

"
I was getting excess crankcase pressure and it was causing oil leaks"..... Through the seals or the breather?

I'm flying a V2 and I am also experimenting with a GY6 engine I bought in the hopes I can drop the sprag clutch / starter / heavy magneto / battery / etc … I'm getting old and the V2 is HEAVY!
I am trying to avoid having to machine a whole new crank case but if I do, I can stand the cylinder upright and may be able to incorporate the larger re-drive pully mount into the cylinder head to save another 1/2kg
Iv got the oil ports re-routed and closed all oil passages on the original case (looks like a dogs dinner / the casting are not fun to weld)
I may never get there but it keeps me out of trouble when its raining :)
 
"I have pics of these and will post them if I can work out how to".... 
You have my vote, I wouldn't mind seeing those.

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It wasn't able to breath enough through the vent and was actually pushing oil out of the cylinder base and head gasket.

Sounds like you've gone way more in depth than I have! I dropped the battery and the recharge system, fitted a 3S 2200Mah lithium battery on saving a couple of kgs. Gets over 40 starts before needing a recharge (off engine).

Id like to get hold of a 232cc kit (67mm) and a stroker crank and make a monster 4 stroke...Possible on paper?

Scott.

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7 minutes ago, Vauxscott said:

Id like to get hold of a 232cc kit (67mm) and a stroker crank and make a monster 4 stroke...Possible on paper?

I priced a kit up from Taida (10.2 stroker crank // 67mm piston // cylinder// head and J300 decompression cam) it came to just over £500 excluding postage and import tax.

The fact that Baileys have avoided going 232cc and EOS/Scout have gone quiet with their Quatro 232 makes me nervous.
Reliability and economy are the two great things offered in compensation for carrying the extra weight of a four stroke in my opinion so I am waiting for EOS/Scout to do all the hard work of making it make sense :)
I recently heard a rumour that EOS are now looking at a 280cc cylinder (in-house manufactured) which again makes me think the 232cc might be collapsing the inevitably thin cylinder skirts when pushing them into 25hp+ (the 57mm stud spacing does not allow the room for a healthy sized cylinder skirt)

These are of course, speculations on my part but its a lot of work if you get it wrong.
I would be more interested in a 180cc/210cc that weighed less and cost nothing to fix... that being said, I would love to have 80kg+ of thrust :) 

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Blackburn Mark, here is a pic of the crappy finishing in my Bailey casings.

This is the inlet to the pump and shows large burrs on the end of the drilling, most of the drillings were like this. My theory is one of these larger bits broke off and went through the pump causing the failure my motor suffered...

5 minutes with a deburring tool and some files sorted all these out. I wonder what other cases look like?

Scott.

pump.jpg

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Holy shit, you were not kidding!
Must have been a Monday morning some Charley mounted the pump over that.
I get the impression Paul Bailey would string up the guy that let that pass... any engineer would :)

They are practically delivering a lump of aluminum into the throat of the highest precision item on these machines!
Anywhere else besides this precise point on the machine and one of the filters would have picked that shit out.
 

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