poz Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) This should help our sport...Not https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/greenpeace-paraglider-buzzes-trump-at-turnberry_us_5b499302e4b0bc69a7876502?guccounter=1 Edited July 14, 2018 by poz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheffSean Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I was gonna post something about this but I didn't want to ruffle any feathers so to speak, maybe not the best thing to do. Sean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Harcourt Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I contacted Greenpeace and told them to pack it in and why... Not on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 The exact reason in why Paramotoring should be regulated in order to stop morons like this breaking CAA regulations and flying within 50ft of peoples heads! If only the Secret Service were in reach of him or her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Harcourt Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I don’t agree, regulation isn’t for me... I prefer the current model as it’s more accessible and inclusive. I fly (legally), to escape the life draining adherence to made up rules... How many pilots here wouldn’t be flying if a pilots license and the inherant costs, medicals ect were involved? The pilot and Greenpeace deserve to have the book thrown at them for blatant and flagrant acts like this.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I see your point but there are too many idiots in the sport now to not be able to turn a blind eye to it, i recently gave up Paramotoring due to the constant incompetencies and ignorance of many "pilots" who just show little to no regard for anybody other than themselves. Now by no means was i ever perfect but when i see the Industry failing to grip something so basic such as what it right and wrong then you have to be self admittant to the bad press that circulates Paramotoring on a more frequent basis. I am aware that the majority far outweigh the minority, but the minority will ruin it for you, and the CAA have every piece of evidential right to regulate this now. Sorry, it is a home truth, but i really hope it happens. It needs to. There are Paramotorists out there who stray into TFR's and NOTAMS so often that it is almost as though people just get some kit, learn how to get in the air, and off they go. It's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 If you think licensing it will stop it you are wrong. Do you honestly think that Greenpeace or any one else intent on flying illegally would be at all interested in a licence? It's a common misconception that making something need a licence will stop illegal activities. Only the people who care and are law abiding would bother to get the licence which would leave the illegal people still to do what they wanted. SW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosty100 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 You can lay any laws down you wish but you will never rule out those who flagrantly break the law. A little bit like telling someone to 'keep out of no fly zones' only for them to get completely ignored/acknowledged, do you agree Simon? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I’ve been doing some fixed wing Microlight flying over the past year and hanging out with GA crowd, I can assure you, busting airspace and being incompetent isn’t only the preserve of paramotors. Paramotor pilots have to follow the same rules as everyone else and by and large, self preservation and staying very close to take off fields means most stay well out of trouble. I believe this is still the safest form of amateur powered aviation? We cause less trouble than you think. I think regulation is a long long way off, the direction of travel is pushing more responsibility to the pilot for light weight aviation and away from CAA - single seat micro lights are now mostly ‘ssdr’ so don’t require CAA approval, the 70 kilo rule means that there is more machines available to ‘unlicensed’ pilots. We aren’t really where the focus is at right now. However, some people are desperate to find rules they can follow and enjoy the power trip of forcing others to conform. I don’t condone breaking air law but if you want extra rules to follow, can I suggest joining a golf club? You’ll be more at home there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Fantastic, i am glad your five minute stint with other amateur pilots has provided you with a wealth of experience in order to respond with an uneducated response that relates to a golf club. To provide an educated response to those who do actually have the ability to take constructive opinions i think the point of flying a stupid banner over a heavily protected area could only ever be done by a Paramotor Pilot, your everyday individual who can buy this kit off Ebay and automatically become a danger to others. The fact that less incidents occur is quite frankly because there are less of you, nothing to do with how safe you are. I agree that a majority of you do appreciate the rules but unless you get amongst those who do stupid things then what would you expect a Governing Body to do? I am glad to be out of the industry and will be pursuing other GA areas which actually hold a decent level of skill and respect to other people. It baffles me why you wouldn't want to be licensed, it's nore training which means safer skies for us all. How is that a bad thing? Mind you, some would never agree to compliance through ignorance anyway, as quoted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) ...hang on, I’m calling it, you are standing to be the next chair of the BHPA aren’t you? Simon, do I win £5? I think you are probably in the wrong place, no one here is going to defend a green peace protester abusing our sport (or other infringements) - on that, I agree 100%. However, if you think that means we should all be eagerly queuing up for more regulation then you are, I’m afraid, a bit of a tool. Im sure you will have more luck inflicting your high levels of professionalism elsewhere. Like a golf club. Edited July 15, 2018 by Patrick1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 There are some people who were born, and will always remain stupid.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamishdylan Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Before we all book our First Class tickets on the outrage bus, just take a deep breath and have a look at the CAA website/Summer edition of Clued Up safety magazine. There are plenty of fully qualified PPL pilots who inadvertently bust controlled airspace; just look at the prosecutions and remedial training courses. It is largely a matter of education and CAA should be commended for their positive and supportive approach on preventing recurrences through better training and education. It is a different matter entirely to deliberately bust restricted airspace to make a protest; it matters not one jot whether it was done in a paramotor, paraglider, light aircraft towing a banner or a sled pulled by red-nosed reindeer. The issue here is that the protesters couldn't get close on the ground so they did it in the air - the means of transport is almost immaterial, although using a paramotor meant that the banner was in camera shot for longer because the aircraft was moving slowly. Anything faster/more threatening stood a good chance of being shot down (from the ground or from the air). Greenpeace are no no novices in planning high profile protests, be that against whale hunters, nuclear submarines or orange-faced, small-handed politicians. They notified the Police & ATC just in time to decrease the risk but with not enough time to prevent the protest. I'm sure the TV stations would have been tipped off just in time too. Remember the kn*b who repeatedly bust the airspace at Glastonbury? They prosecuted his @rse and rightly so. For this incident, a 55-year old is in custody and will be before the Sheriff in the morning for the Trump fiasco; let's just let justice run its course and not jump to conclusions - eh? Perhaps the prediction that this is the end of our sport as we currently know it is just a little premature.... when we see the outcome we can debate if more Draconian licensing would make any difference at all. Will he prove to be BHPA/IPPI/YouTube trained? Will it make a difference? PS: car drivers are licensed in this country - has this stopped speeding/drunk driving/using mobile phones at the wheel? No, I thought not.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Whilst a few of your points are valid (a poor ratio to the many of your others which aren't) you have fallen yet again into the trap of not seeing the actual reason for regulation purpose in the first place. Is it about penalising the wrong people, making life difficult, restricting your endless hours of fun? NO, nothing of the sort actually, but what it does do is make people realise that irresponsible and wreckless behaviour can lead to a loss of air time and licensing. Whilst you compare this to the millions of drivers who use cars as a daily mode of transport day in and day out (ps, shit reference btw) who provide literally no relevance to people flying aircraft you will fail to see that the statistics are always going to be higher on the roads when there are almost 40 million road users. Slightly less comparable to the few thousand Paramotorists. If you were to then look at the amount of penalties and or collisions on the road in relation to the amount of people on the road and then do the same for all you Parajet, Bulldog (loose example) heroes out there, then i reckon the results would be damning. Problem is, half the aviation incidents in this industry are barely reported anyway as they are low key or kept private through embarrassment. Licensing never stops the problem, but at least the CAA can get a grip of the sport and stop these accidents from happening. I see an incident recently where two Paramotorists flew into each other, how stupid can it get!!!!! And yes, it happens in GA too, but when a massive bright wing that travels slower than time itself isn't visible enough to another pilot then surely it's a wake up call. Anyway, that's my spin on it. I never expected to be met with praise as most of you have your heads in the sand, for those who provide a balanced debate i applaud you, for the uneducated who wish to ridicule and mention golf clubs, well quite frankly maybe it's that kind of attitude that isn't welcome in Aviation, not mine. So embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Last year, the UK's best helicopter CAA examiner and pilot died (RIP) in a crash with a fixed wing pilot who held public display licences and also an examiner for the CAA. Just because you can fly a little microlight, it does not make you a sky god. SW 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Maybe you could get the Daily Mail to start a campaign? In your keen attempt to appear professional and clever, you are coming across as the opposite. Looks to me like you joined this forum in 2016 then sold your kit 12 months later, sounds about right. I'll try once more; you are absolutely correct insofar as intentionally breaking air-law is bad and accidents are bad. You are wrong if you think that more regulation will stop people having accidents or stop greenpeace from protesting. You lack critical thinking - you have come on here to demand the wrong solution to the problem. By the way, on another note, I don't think you are in a position to comment on the mid air collision and I find your use of language ignorant. Experienced pilots who actually go out and fly (rather than talk about it) willingly expose themselves to a level of risk - which increases or decreases depending on their decisions (like flying close to another wing). Like the majority of mid air collisions, both the guys you call stupid were flying completely within the rules and both were a lot more experienced than you. They were doing something that I suspect you do't actually do - flying. I'm glad to hear you aren't flying a paramotor but I suspect you will disappointed to discover that all GA - regulated or not - have exactly the same issues as Paramotoring if not more so. Midair collisions, notam errors, airspace incursions are much more common in GA. If golf isn't for you, why not become a free mason? Or the parish council? Or you could be one of those people who call in to radio talk shows to complain about how we're all going to hell in a handcart. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndySV1K Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 16 hours ago, Danny B said: i recently gave up Paramotoring due to the constant incompetencies and ignorance of many "pilots" who just show little to no regard for anybody other than themselves. Did you really choose to stop a flying hobby because of other pilots doing things wrong? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Harcourt Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Moving on, I had a reply from Greenpeace..... ‘Thanks for getting in touch and for passing on your feedback. I'm sorry to hear you are not happy with our most recent action. Please know that this was all very well planned and executed.A Greenpeace representative at the police line informed officers about the fly-past before it happened. Greenpeace also telephoned the police air incident advisor 10 minutes before the glider arrived, telling them what was planned. At the same time Greenpeace contacted Prestwick air traffic control by telephone and radio to inform them about the paraglider’s arrival. Thanks again for sharing your feedback, I will pass this onto the team. ‘ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 At least he didn't mong it like that guy in France a few years back - for those who haven't seen it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 21 hours ago, Danny B said: i recently gave up Paramotoring due to the constant incompetencies and ignorance of many "pilots" who just show little to no regard for anybody other than themselves. I was waiting for an excuse to stop reading this thread - and I found it. Did you give up driving your car for the same reason? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Oh Patrick looks like i struck a nerve there princess, i hope you will get over it and come out of the other side a stronger person. My right to express opinions on two "pilots" that fly into each other is upheld as i have the right to say or think what i like, much like you and everybody else does. The fact that they were "out there flying" whilst i allegedly sit and talk about it doesn't really count for much when a collision occurs does it? All the experience in the world doesn't substitute safety and that is clearly apparent, so maybe have a think about that next time you wish to try and sound clever yourself instead of a poor attempt of ridiculing my educated views and background. As for how long i flew for, that is kind of irrelevant, but it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to work out from previous threads that i had kit which i flew numerous times for over 12 months before realising the sport wasn't for me. Not sure what relevance that has by the way, the way you talk suggests that i have spent my whole life wrapped in cotton wool counting Domino's in a Garden Shed, whereas actually you have no idea of the dangers i have experienced in life which do not need to be magnified by Paramotoring. Paramotoring is not scary, trust me. You seem to have a little group of buddy's who think you need all the backing you can get, so instead of wasting my time arguing with them as well as you, i will stop replying in the knowledge that you clearly can't fight your own battles. It's ridiculously embarrassing and I imagine slightly immature for a grown man (i presume you call yourself that) to have all these people fighting his corner. This confirms why i left the sport. I actually remained on the Forum because i enjoyed seeing peoples videos and movements across the UK, however all i see from this is another minority (including the Administrator worringly) who enjoy blowing peoples opinions out of the water in some pathetic attempt of mob mentality. A sport where people constantly chop their fingers off in a farmers field and see no wrong with it is not for me (my lack of experience must mean i kept all of mine of course Patrick). If the sport continues to flourish then good luck to it, and i hope it remains as it is, but by acting like morons and jumping down people's throats over what started as a simple thread comment/opinion is a clear reflection on who you are as a welcoming party. I can't be bothered to reply anymore, but if you want to carry it on Patrick then you can inbox me instead of all this rubbish. You need to get a grip of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 You're a lovely erxample of how to influence people and make friends. Bye Danny (whoever you are). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 *example. Says the keyboard warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shobbers Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Scott Harcourt said: Moving on, I had a reply from Greenpeace..... ‘Thanks for getting in touch and for passing on your feedback. I'm sorry to hear you are not happy with our most recent action. Please know that this was all very well planned and executed.A Greenpeace representative at the police line informed officers about the fly-past before it happened. Greenpeace also telephoned the police air incident advisor 10 minutes before the glider arrived, telling them what was planned. At the same time Greenpeace contacted Prestwick air traffic control by telephone and radio to inform them about the paraglider’s arrival. Thanks again for sharing your feedback, I will pass this onto the team. ‘ Oh right.. Ok then... Thats fine... All is forgiven.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Danny B said: *example. Says the keyboard warrior Still here then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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