Ganbatte Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 So, I'll be using school equipment for a while yet, but it's not too soon to start *thinking* about my ideal first motor. And my thoughts seem to wander afield from the well trodden path, so it seems sensible to run them past the crew here, see what people think. Titanium is very tough and springy and easily bent back into shape, so it seems a no-brainer for someone who might have a few butt landings in the beginning. The SkyMax Star frame looks very interesting, pragmatic and cost effective. Not to mention light, which matters a lot for me. How does one choose a harness without hands-on evaluation? People seem to like the Sup Air line, but dudek's Power Comfort gets nothing but rave reviews at a modest weight cost. I don't have the skinniest butt ever (100 kg naked), can anyone make a recommendation in this area? And my most heretical thought: Assuming a moster engine (which I consider a bit stronger than I really need anyway) and a conventional 130 cm hoop... I'm considering passing up the conventional 125 cm 2-blade prop for a 115 cm 3 blade, *purely for the extra clearance* in the event of a bad launch or landing. Thoughts? Suggestions? Reasons my ideas are crazy and won't work? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 I learnt on a V3. I had 2 hard landings in the first 20 hours, but no damage and no prop damage. The V3 is VERY strong and is probably why I got away with it. In fact I've never damaged anything, but I was taught to abort early, not go for it (160 hours now). You need to work out what is important for you when you have flown a little. For me it is similar to you, the lightest weight possible, but also a decent thrust. So titanium/carbon and 200cc. I found going to Parafest and seeing all the available machines in one place was best. I have flown with a number of harnesses but find them all very similar, if the size is right. Don't go for smaller 3 blade prop to avoid bad launch. Learn to not do bad launch. 3 blades cost £150 more than 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganbatte Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 Well, nobody *plans* on a bad launch or especially landing; we can plan against them, though. Considering that a single prop strike, even if it bites no flesh, costs double that much plus some number of flying days while we wait for parts, the monetary argument isn't terribly telling. If it doesn't work, otoh, would be. I have no pride in this area; if doing something training wheels'ish avoids problems, I don't care if my motor looks less cool than it's supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e2vdavidb Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I would second the V3 as its super strong but the cost is weight. Recomendation depends on you, are you 4 foot or 6 foot, can you manage a 40kg paramotor or will it glue you to the ground. The V3 is upwards of 30kg once you have some fuel in it so not for the smaller pilot. With the Moster 185 its a good all round package for me and I´m around 90kg with my gear on. Best chance is to talk with your school and see what fits, make the effort to visit the Parajet guys if your UK and try on a mavic and V3 but be warned the Mavic will feel like it better as on your back feels way lighter. If you can walk make a short run with the V3 the reward is the harness (Dudek) is super comfortable and the frame is well engineered and tough as they come. Its only heavy for the 1st 10 steps after all If your in Europe look at Fly Products, there kit is also very well put together and nice guys also. Learning means a lot more runnning and ground based activities so expect to feel like its always too heavy. The good thing is once you nail the takeoffs the heavy bit is only carrying your gear to the takeoff point and then a few steps. I also have a Scout sitting under a layer of dust. The V3 harness is more comfortable and the weight difference is almost zero on your back. Being strong the V3 will forgive a lot but its still not impossible to bend and going turtle will still break a prop but as long as you trip forward, only butt land its a good strong option. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganbatte Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Well I'm 180 cm and 100 kg (all this metric is a little unnatural; being in the US I think in imperial, but ppg is a metric world), lost 35 kg specifically motivated by ppg. But I'm older than most here and have never been a jock, so... First time I put on a motor, I couldn't even stand w/o a hand up, but that was both bad technique and before the weight loss. Since then I've run across the field with running motor, so the situation isn't hopeless, but I still put huge importance on weight. Chances are I'll care less when I've logged a couple score hours, but until then I remain (possibly excessively) interested in weight. And booboo resistance. For the near future, I'll likely be flying the school's Nitro; all this shopping/thinking is forward planning and subject to change. But all that said, I very much doubt I'd go with anything as heavy as a V3, Viper etc, no matter the other virtues they offer. IMO the EOS engines aren't yet ready for prime time, so my motor choices are either nitro-full-kit or moster, moster or moster, even though I think it's more power than I need and more weight than I'd prefer. Unless I travel to a flyin somewhere, it's unlikely I'll get to even look at most options in person before cutting a check, so that's not ideal, but the way it is. The school motors I'll get to play with will be nitro and mav/moster; the other motors on hand are either too light (atom 80) or too heavy (thor). Anything else the school doesn't own will be paper shopping and picking other ppl's brains. Which is what I'm doing here now. Aside from "get more skilled" (I'm working on that, though slowly, considering the season), I really am interested in "is there a technical reason why my 3 short blades scheme would be a bad idea?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraflyer17 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I was considering a volution, but those weights are crazy. Is it really that heavy? Sorry to hijack thread, but I have been unable to find out the weight differences between the maverick, zenith and volution. Does anyone know what the difference is between the 3 (with the same engine obviously) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 My V3 was over 30 kg. Zenith a little lighter. Latest Mav, with lightest options, similar to NItro I think.....although AC have now introduced a lightweight harness, knocking another .9 kg off (I have that on my Tornado). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganbatte Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 The mav pro is listed as 21.5 kg with moster, but to accomplish that, they equip it with the apco split leg harness, compare vs 19.5 kg for the nitro v2 race pull start, with AC's lightweight but conventional harness. I do *not* know if the mav spec includes prop; some mfr's "accidentally" leave that off on the grounds it varies. Don't know if parajet is doing that or not. It does seem from the pics as if all it shares with the other mavs is the name. And it's $9k list, while the AC race at aerolight is $7350. If we're looking for an all titanium frame, I find both the design and cost of the SkyMax Star very interesting. In general, the way the midrange market looks to me is: AC Nitro or moster-with-some-frame. The Nitro engine alone is 11.6 pull, moster plus (not exactly the same, but what most people choose) is 14.4. The rest of the weight differences is the frame and harness, which AC has already shaved down pretty hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganbatte Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Looking at commonly offered packages a while ago, I concluded the next lightest combination after the Nitro was, oddly enough, the Tornado. Which my instructor is very firm "too much power for beginner". I can understand that; don't want to star in the next youtube riser twist video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e2vdavidb Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Yep the V3 is a weightly lump however in its defence the harness is very comfortable, and strenght is not free. On my back the V3 does not feel any heavier than my Scout enduro, I put this down to comfort. A basic folding builders platform will save you the effort of getting up and down off the ground, my best low cost invetment regardless of your final choice. I´m also not a spring chicken aproaching 54 so also not so sporty but with techneque the V3 is serving me well. Now I have reached tripple digits in my log book I am starting to look at alternates but mostly window shopping as I already have a Scout sitting gathering dust. Get to Parajet if your in the UK and try some on your back. The Mavic feels really light even with the Moster 185, I think its just the setup as it brings the motor a bit closer to your back so less overhang. For me I visited Parajet and Fly Products and I prefer the engineering on the Fly Products Eclipse and its so light I would actually go for the Atom for a sub 20kg setup. All this is speculation, it dont mean a thing without the right wing, recently my German flying buddy traded up to a new wing and he is no longer running the full field. The change means his inflation is much quicker, takeoff is short and landing flare is safe and slow. Work with the school, dont be too ambitious and before you commit try a few wings and some motors on your back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganbatte Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 Re the portable folding table, yes, have that already, though for now it's doing household utility duty. My (possibly slightly uptight) thoughts on those are nice luxury from a home field, but I *have* to be able to do without it, should I need to land somewhere and launch again. This is why the "couldn't stand up" experience shocked me enough to lose that 35 kg during winter shutdown period, and leaves me still to this day a bit cautious about weight. I've never heard a bad word directed at the atom 80, except it's too small for me. If they made an atom 120, I'd be all over that like white on rice! They'll likely announce one just as soon as I go for something else. Awaiting shipment notification of my first own wing as we speak. I'm calling it my "granny wing", and am sitting on pins and needles waiting. (Pssst! Hey you! Finish sewing and send it already! <g>) Chose it to max out ease of launch and land; speed and fancy stuff can wait. I'm not in the UK, but the school does have a maverick/moster, so I'll certainly be trying that before pulling the trigger on anything. Regular Mav, not the pro. FWIW, I too like the numbers on the eclipse, but I've not seen one in person to try to flex the hoop and such. I still haven't heard a reason why my short prop scheme would be a bad idea. Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotan Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Check out the WASP Titanium with EOS150. That's my rig and I absolutely love it. At my age and fitness (ha!) level I needed the lightest but powerful setup I could find and this is the absolute best I found. www.wasppg.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganbatte Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 Thanks, I'll take a look. Though I will admit I've heard a moderate amount of chatter along the lines that EOS motors need a little design work yet. Those people's comments weren't very specific, so I don't know how much weight to put on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotan Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Yes you're right, many years ago the first version EOS100's did have some issues but they have been resolved over time. The EOS150 has developed through a series of design upgrades up to the current highly refined 2020 model. EOS is always improving and innovating and I find that a real plus point. I have the 2018 model and it has proven to be flawless. To demonstrate EOS' commitment to the sport there is a 4-stroke (Quattro) approaching release and that will be a ppg game changer, offering smooth, linear power and maintaining the same light weight criteria. Everybody has brand loyalty to some extent, (some will even buy motors that virtually guarantee cracked exhausts at some point)!!! I would trust actual hands-on testing rather than hearsay and make your own judgement. I've lost count of the number of motors I tried on before arriving at the EOS150! Good luck whatever you decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganbatte Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 Thanks for that. How available are parts for EOS engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Every time I get parts from EOS, they arrive quickly and without and invoice. It was actually this service level that made us add them to the online shop.!! (coming soon but being loaded up slowly but surely.) If you need bits and can't get them, give me a shout SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotan Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Yes I second Simon's thumbs up for EOS spares. Rob has spares in stock and can get them to you very quickly. He genuinely believes that after sales and support is a top priority and that was a major factor in my going with WASP and the EOS engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 I can’t personally vouch for Rob but he seems like a sound guy and is now working with us to stock the WASP Paramotors in the shop but if Rob were to decide to move to NZ or something tomorrow, the team at EOS are great to work with directly also. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganbatte Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 Ok, that's encouraging, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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