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ppc vs ppg


TnT
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I am a newb to this sport and I have just got started with some training. After meeting and talking to the instructor for two hours about the differences Im still a bit confused about which way to go. PPC training is less expensive and gets you in the air quicker and seems to be a little safer due to the wing loading but perhaps a bit less portable. Im told there is much less maintenance requiremens with the ppc option as well.  I dont however seem to be able to find much available online regarding powered parachutes availability and there seems to be much more iin the way of ppg equipment .. supposedly my local instructor isnt big on selling gear but would help me find whatever.

 

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Hi, 

Personally, I would say that learning to fly a trike (PPC) from scratch will be harder than learning to foot launch first. The main reason being that in a trike you are disconnected from the 'feel' of the wing making it hard to know where it is all the time during launch. 

If you have physical limitations, then clearly this is not always an option. 

Either will work for you for sure, but I think the foot launched approach will be quicker and improve your skills massively. 

SW :D

 

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Yes i agree with Si unless there's some health or physical reason for NOT going foot launch, and i cannot see maintenance side being much different as both need machine and equipment checks before flight O.o, but also if you do go trike then several on the market break down into compact bundles. but if your not happy with instructor seek a second opinion from another, or even better go talk to trike powered fliers who will have experience in the process 

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I struggle to walk steadily and carrying the weight for long is an issue. However, my instructors were brilliant and taught me to foot launch...initially with lots of help holding the weight etc. Now I have now been flying on my own 1 year and still foot launching. I am considering trike for future as disability gets worse. Definitely foot launch if you can.

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Thanks for all the replies. Still a bit concerned about which way to go. Seems that everyone here is suggesting foot launch first would at least be a valuable learning tool. However what He is offering with the PPC course and flying is not a trike flown via a handheld braking system with a ppg paramotor,  but a foot controlled steering, heavier  trike with a larger wing more of the parachute type and with heavier loading and more of the rotax type 503 or  higher output engines. As opposed to a hand controlled parglider type wing and paramotor being used with a lightweight trike. To be clear, the instructor offers both types instruction but in discussing the differences seemed to favor and encourage the ppc route citing the typical damages to props and cages most would experience in the first year....

Any thoughts from instructors whom have experience in multiple types of flight appreciated... As for health and size, Im quite heavy at approx 255 lbs but somewhat athletic for the size and I am 46 yrs old. 

 

 

Edited by TnT
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  • 4 weeks later...

This may be of help, and may not!

I have previously had very limited PPG experience (one week training in France followed by one solo) footlaunch, after which I fell over on a supervised forward launch and crushed a disc. No more flying for some years, but a couple of years ago I wanted to get back into it. I had a one day taster for training, but as soon as the instructor said 'now run like f@ck' I knew that I would never be able to do that with the weight of a motor on my back. So I went the route of PPC........very much heavier than PPG but I love the Rotax 503 and stability offered by the wide, low and extremely strong trikes. The trike is very stable on the ground but wing however flew like a brick with a glide rate of about 2:1. Not helped I'm sure by a canopy that is 27 years old. I have been flying this for a year now.

I have now ordered an Ozone Mag Max tandem glider which I hope to match up to the trike as soon as it is delivered, and then hope to have the best of both worlds.......a modern efficient wing with an acceptable glide rate and a very strong and stable trike. This type of trike has the added benefit of a frame and head plate which surrounds the pilot and in doing so offers considerably greater protection.

First launches will be supervised for reasons of additional safety but at the time of writing has yet to be tested, so let me know if you're interested in how it went..

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  • 2 weeks later...

I curious about safety and handling in higher winds (nothing crazy) of large paramotor trikes such as the Fresh Breeze Xcitor vs the compact foldable trikes that attached to a foot launch unit (e.g. Pap mini rolling trike or Nirvana Carbon cruiser). Is one more likely to roll on take-off/landing?  Do A-Riser-assists really provide a big advantage?

Edited by paramotor3d
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I don't have sufficient experience to quote for myself, but I do have a friend who foot launches an Ozone Roadster 2 paramotor, and trike launches an Aerochute powered parachute trike. His opinion is that he considers many of the lightweight paramotor trikes to be too light/narrow to be sufficiently stable.

Someone else I have spoken to trike launches an Ozone Speedster 33 and never needs A line assist. Heavy trike 230 kilos all up.

If anyone has any video clips of the larger trikes not using A line assist (either successfully or not) I'm sure it would be of help.

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never need a assist with rotax engine wing blows up over head very easy and much better to launch than my ppg trikes .you bought a ppg wing for your trike now excelent you will see a big difference with the new wing,get over to our fields when they are cut we have a good group in worcester

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  • 9 months later...
On 5/2/2017 at 12:46, Guy said:

This may be of help, and may not!

I have previously had very limited PPG experience (one week training in France followed by one solo) footlaunch, after which I fell over on a supervised forward launch and crushed a disc. No more flying for some years, but a couple of years ago I wanted to get back into it. I had a one day taster for training, but as soon as the instructor said 'now run like f@ck' I knew that I would never be able to do that with the weight of a motor on my back. So I went the route of PPC........very much heavier than PPG but I love the Rotax 503 and stability offered by the wide, low and extremely strong trikes. The trike is very stable on the ground but wing however flew like a brick with a glide rate of about 2:1. Not helped I'm sure by a canopy that is 27 years old. I have been flying this for a year now.

I have now ordered an Ozone Mag Max tandem glider which I hope to match up to the trike as soon as it is delivered, and then hope to have the best of both worlds.......a modern efficient wing with an acceptable glide rate and a very strong and stable trike. This type of trike has the added benefit of a frame and head plate which surrounds the pilot and in doing so offers considerably greater protection.

First launches will be supervised for reasons of additional safety but at the time of writing has yet to be tested, so let me know if you're interested in how it went..

Not sure how that tandem ppg wing has worked out for you but Apco lift 400 and 450 are fast flying elliptical winfs designed for PPC and foot steering that have excellent glide ratio. Asap also has the thunderbolt E series wich I have no experience with but also elliptical and both should glide and handle much more like ppg wings on a ppc..

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4 minutes ago, TnT said:

Not sure how that tandem ppg wing has worked out for you but Apco lift 400 and 450 are fast flying elliptical winfs designed for PPC and foot steering that have excellent glide ratio. Asap also has the thunderbolt E series wich I have no experience with but also elliptical and both should glide and handle much more like ppg wings on a ppc..

Despite what I said the first launches were not supervised in any way.............me on my own in a field O.o

It has gone very well on the whole. I had a little torque effect at first so I had to do a little research on how to get rid of that (easy enough by setting one hang point a little behind the other), and it suffered a small amount of oscillation. Andy B on this forum confirmed what I had found out myself in practice and what Ozone told me.............application of a little brake and it's sorted.

The glide rate is soooo much better. So much that most of my landings are engine off or I might overfly the small strip I use. I must admit that I love that silent approach with only the sound of the wind whistling around me and the machine.

I'm very happy with my hybrid but I'm afraid it is still a bit of an ugly duckling. This photo still has the old 4 point PPC hangpoints.WP_20160922_17_33_41_Pro.thumb.jpg.08ba08705bd5151a98d0658010c06cdb.jpg

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Less than 1 year since I started this post and it seems like an eternity experience and flying wise. I opted to go the powered parachute route which seems to be somewhat less known with few manufacturers of new vehicles etc. I can say that the only possible downside to this route vs ppg is a bit less portability and slightly longer takeoff roll. Especially when paired with a modern elliptical wing  that handles more like a ppg wing as far as glide, efficiency, and turning capability. The heavier wing loading makes it much more difficult to stall or collapse a wing ever and offers a bit more stability. Perhaps if you see yourself as the type of pilot who wants to get into acro hardcore this is not the way to go for you though Ive seen barrell rolls done in a ppc with elliptical wing

 

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7 minutes ago, Guy said:

Despite what I said the first launches were not supervised in any way.............me on my own in a field O.o

It has gone very well on the whole. I had a little torque effect at first so I had to do a little research on how to get rid of that (easy enough by setting one hang point a little behind the other), and it suffered a small amount of oscillation. Andy B on this forum confirmed what I had found out myself in practice and what Ozone told me.............application of a little brake and it's sorted.

The glide rate is soooo much better. So much that most of my landings are engine off or I might overfly the small strip I use. I must admit that I love that silent approach with only the sound of the wind whistling around me and the machine.

I'm very happy with my hybrid but I'm afraid it is still a bit of an ugly duckling. This photo still has the old 4 point PPC hangpoints.WP_20160922_17_33_41_Pro.thumb.jpg.08ba08705bd5151a98d0658010c06cdb.jpg

Wow ! that certainly is an old hybrid of sorts. Probably well suited and easily adapted to the ppg wing due to the old design. Did this ever have foot steering ? Also the hang points seem narrow for a PPC wing. My instructor  has a hybrid he uses for tandems with a rotax and a ppg wing that he custom built and had n numbered.

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Yours looks like an American style PPC, so it would have very wide hang points and foot steering. My trike was manufactured in the UK around 1989 called a Powerchute.

The firm closed down and the licence appears to have been bought by an Australian company called Aerochute which then manufactured the exact same model. There are still quite a few in the UK but most have a dual bench seat which is pretty uncomfortable, so as I only ever intend to fly solo I changed mine as you can see. Very comfortable if a little unconventionalIMG-20170618-WA0009.thumb.jpg.735a85cddd73aab0fd3f78d8a1ca0ea6.jpgNot a great shot, but this is the trike under the Ozone Magmax.

The narrower hangpoints on mine are well suited to a PPG wing while the lack of any turning on the ground has never been a problem (yet!) as the canopy is steered with the brake lines to follow the trike. 

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  • 5 months later...

I love the idea of these and went up to see Ben a couple of weeks ago. I’m a bit torn as I like the idea of PPG being so portable, easy to store, transport, set up etc. A little more involved with the Peabee and Snake and think it may be better stored at an airfield/club. Where are you planning to keep it? Done any flexwing flying before?

 

Trevor.

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