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Paramotor Customer Service is non existent


duncan_burdorf
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Would you accept this sort of service from your car dealer? NO?, So why accept it from your Paramotor manufacturer?

I am new to the paramotor sport and have come to realise that this sport is not one of the cheapest around.

As a newbie I am expected to part with a lot of cash on wings, paramotors, props and safety items.

Just like when buying a car or motorbike we are treated like kings when spending the money but the after sales customer service is NOT comparable in anyway.

Let me explain!

I think it’s fair to say that most paramotors have had little issues with certain weaknesses in the beginning.

Naturally these are then improved by the manufacturer and the newer models will then have certain upgrades which is great.

But the pilots who have bought the older models are not automatically sent the upgraded items.

Coming back to my comparison with car or motor bike manufacturers, many of these will and have sent out letters to all their clients informing them of possible issues and either offer a free inspection or automatically upgrade the part as a precaution. This is not only extremely important but also shows that the automotive manufacturers take their responsibility very seriously.

Whilst paramotor manufacturers rather lets the pilots continue flying, sometimes with seriously dangerous components, until they are either asked for a replacement. Mostly because pilots have noticed the issue in time or the damage has already occurred.

To make matters worse, my experience is that even when you ask the manufacturer for a replacement part its not guaranteed that you are even getting a replacement part regardless if they have changed that part in the past due to the majority failing.

I get the sense that paramotor dealers and manufacturers do not understand, unlike their automotive cousins, that after sale customer service is an opportunity to secure more business. Its well proven that good after sale customer service does not only win customer loyalty but also gives the company good PR which in turn wins new customers.

Without mentioning names, I know a pilot that had to fight for his replacement part then had to wait for 2 week only to receive a part that was not even the latest generation part.

Guess what! I must have been the 100th person he told … not very good PR for “PAP” … Oops! :oops:

I would love to know if you agree or disagree with my opinion!

Please do not ask me to name and shame just yet as my matter is still being reviewed.

Duncan

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I'm afraid in some ways it goes with the territory Duncan.

Paramotoring is a small niche market in an overall expensive field of activity, i.e. aviation.

You must have heard the saying 'The only way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large one'.

The only manufacturer that goes way beyond the call on after sales service that I have heard of is Parajet, you'll find numerous testimonials on this forum. That's not to say there haven't been issues with equipment though.

But the pilots who have bought the older models are not automatically sent the upgraded items.

Duncan

The manufacturers would tell you the margin isn't there to even contemplate the idea.

I bought my kit 2nd hand from the then current dealer of Fresh Breeze but the dealership has changed at least once since and I wonder if previous customer records would ever likely change hands?

I have just researched newer FB designs on their web site and bought improved parts as I have thought necessary or have have been supplied as spares.

I can't say I've had any problems with my French FB dealer, apart from having to wait for parts whilst the factory was on summer shut-down :(

Cheers,

Alan

_____________________

Dudek ReActionTST 29

Fresh Breeze Airboss (Solo)

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i had the same problem, and i will always tell everyone who with - walkerjet - 3 months and threats of court action for parts, the the issues over waranty (yeah right, what waranty), that way hopefully they will go under and the better manufacturers will survive

However

After asking around i eventually bought a nice new Fresh Breeze Monster, and i have to say that Piers (fresh breeze dealer in uk) has been fantastic, the motor is reliable (touch wood) and i do not have to worry about it, any parts sent have arrived the same week (i had an issue with the silencer wrap and was sent silicone sealer and tape the same day, and didnt expect it) i had a spring come loose in the started and recieved a new one the same week - all i asked was how to get it back in.

So i would say that not all dealers are the same, however there are some bad ones out there

i did ask for a rating page so that we could rate our experiences with each dealer but it seems that its not workable, we do need something to make them accountable :x

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Hi Guys,

OK So I'm not the only one who thinks that things can be improved.

Regarding the manufacturers saying they don’t have any margins that bull.

The automotive industry is a very competitive market and works on very low margins but offers a good after sales service. The reason is that they are clued on and realise this helps ensure future sales.

Just for clarity! I am not having a dig at importers and dealers just the manufacturers as they have a duty to ensure safety and if any part of their product is weak or faulty they have the responsibility to rectify the item for all who have the weak or faulty part on their motor.

I just want my new pulley! :evil:

573363ff96c5c_PAPF200.jpg.88f0a1691ca076

Edited by Guest
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The automotive industry is a very competitive market and works on very low margins but offers a good after sales service. The reason is that they are clued on and realise this helps ensure future sales.

They also have scale on their side you can't compare a car company that sells 100's of thousands of cars and employs thousands of people to a paramotor manufacturer that sells 20-30 units a year and employs 3 people it's not a fair comparison.

I did research before I got my kit and decided to buy a motor built by a company that has proven a* customer backup (parajet)

Tom

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I'm not sure Tom

A car, van or even a bike has loads more components and styling charges than a paramotor.

OK lets go on the assumption that there is no margin for this ...surely this is upto the manufacturer to calculate with each new product release so that their business model is sound.

If there is no margin then the manufacturers business plan and price point are wrong!

Can we at least agree that regardless the industry, safety and after sales service should always be offered?

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Can we at least agree that regardless the industry, safety and after sales service should always be offered?

Yes definately, there are sharks though or people who don't consider after sales service to be that important.

I'm with you in manufacturers building a loyal customer base through good service.

Great news on the pulley!

Alan

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great news on the pulley :-)

Unfortunatly it's a fact of life that some companys aftersales service ends after the sale..

I know from family experience that it's very hard to make an aviation business profitable, in our case it didn't work out in the end. Alan's comment is very true as I'm sure most in the business will tell you 'The only way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large one'.

Tom :explode:

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for me, parajet get a big +1 every time...in my instance and that of my fellow parajet owners, we have all had customer service above and beyond warranty.

in regard to recalling machines for upgrade and sending out upgraded parts......i think with these machines, it can be very machine specific....for example, my exhaust bracket broke after 6 hours through micro vibrations....and i was given a new one with a thicker bracket....however my buds machine has done 40 hours or more with no such issue...

i guess the way its flown, the pilot weight and flying style has a bearing on the stresses on each part.....as does the quality of parts used and its origin of manufacture.....

my choice for parajet i have to admit was mainly down to machine looks...yes vein i know...but secondly because they are in the uk, and are accessible direct.

my only gripe with parajet is that i rang to buy a rotron today and they cant give me one for 12 weeks due to demand....and no matter how much i laid on the guilt trip i couldnt get jim to relieve me of my cash next week...or the week after...people were in the queue before me and thats that...how inconsiderate!!! lol.

anyone selling one?????

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Like all of you here, I love to fly lots of hours, and I do sympathise, when things dont always go right. On the bright side, I can tell you that it's really reassuring to own a machine that doesn't break (apart from the odd exhaust stud which has now been modified on the new models) and dealer service, although available, never needed. Slightly dearer initial purchase but much much cheaper over a 5 year (250 hours) period. Ya pays ya money and takes ya choice they tell me.

Week to 10 days to get cage parts across the Atlantic (if you manage to bend one like I did :oops: )

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The post above highlights a VERY important point. Buy a machine that does not need that excellent customer service in the first place. IMO one of the manufacturers listed earlier offers 'excellent' customer service because you'll need it.

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The post above highlights a VERY important point. Buy a machine that does not need that excellent customer service in the first place. IMO one of the manufacturers listed earlier offers 'excellent' customer service because you'll need it.

i disagree....

im sure that if every issue that every pilot had were noted...along with the outcomes...we would see a different picture...maybe a useful thread as long as it didnt become a bitching thread!! lol

customer service is paramount to the survival of any business...and i believe that giving that service will ensure survival in a quite limited marketplace of paramotors.

as a business owner, i would rather be known by my referring clients on the basis that "yes we had a couple of issues along the way - but they were sorted quickly and without question"

than....yes they were the cheapest...but god help you if you have any problems!!!

of course...id prefer...the "never had any problems scenario"...but get real....everything has problems...its how you deal with them..

in regards to the flat top ..dave....i just wish there were more uk owners in order to give a complete opinion....i think you are the only person i know of that owns one and talks about it....it sounds a fantastic machine...let down by its marketing approach...

im sure in time more people will buy one and then opinions will be voiced...but until then im buying british....unless yours is 2.5k yet!! lol

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Been offered 3 g. No you carry on and fork out 6 for a rotary. Like I said...ya pays ya money and.....

Marketing strategy....be interested to know what exactly you think is wrong with it. At least he was honest enough to quote the weight of the machine accurately. And I really do value my coxix and would hate to have to add to my running cost by buying props. Most of what I have seen in the advertising has rung true for me. But I might've missed something I guess. I must admit that it's an "unbelievably" good machine. If I didn't own one even I would probably have difficulty in believing that it was better than mine.

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Me thinks that all manufacturers are striving to create perfection but as stated in the post above this is only achieved over a number of years when its perfected and this does not help pilots who have bought the older models.

Yes it would be nice if you never had to use the service but we all know that that is unlikely.

What I think is more important is that we collectively come up with a way to communicate our dissatisfaction to the manufacturers and warn newbie’s of manufacturers who fall way short of our expectations.

Someone earlier mentioned creating a site where individual experiences are recorded and an overall picture of each manufacturer and even distributors based on the individual experiences is clearly visible.

It would make the market much more transparent and would hopefully improve service levels.

What are you thoughts?

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Been offered 3 g. No you carry on and fork out 6 for a rotary. Like I said...ya pays ya money and.....

Marketing strategy....be interested to know what exactly you think is wrong with it. At least he was honest enough to quote the weight of the machine accurately. And I really do value my coxix and would hate to have to add to my running cost by buying props. Most of what I have seen in the advertising has rung true for me. But I might've missed something I guess. I must admit that it's an "unbelievably" good machine. If I didn't own one even I would probably have difficulty in believing that it was better than mine.

for me dave, its not the content of the marketing approach....its just the way its delievered....the whole "our machine is the best in the world and everyone elses is crap" inference just doesnt do it for me...but thats my own personal opinion of course..plus if he has any more vids on youtube we will be calling it delltube!! lol

i prefer a company to have a professional approach...good website...but most of all...proper UK dealers that actually carry spares in the UK....if the FT is such a great selling machine in the US...why not support a UK dealer with a complete spares package..2 or 3 of each component...sure it may only take a week to send across the water....but that can be said of any foreign country....and if all foreign manufacturers "actually" did that, you wouldnt hear so much bad press is suppose....

dont misconstrue this post as a dig against the FT...because it certainly isnt...i do believe that if you werent the only FT owner that i knew, there was a proper UK dealership, and there were more owners to give a proper opinion on the machines, then id go and buy one.

my desire for a rotron bears from the less vibration solution of the engine...it seems alot of the known faults with popular machines stem from the 2 stroke base...and 2 stroke = vibrations....and the bailey 4 st...doesnt really offer enough power to get my lardy arse off the deck!! lol.

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I am with macey2kk on this i bought a Parajet because they are English and the excellent back up service.

My main problem is me and flying when i should not thus breaking things so Parajet's now legendary bend over back up service suits me.

I was at the factory this week and they had a lot of rotron's on the go and also a new paramotor that will be going on sale soon featuring a pollini thor engine looked great and very light.

Dave if we ever meet up i would love to fly a flat top they must be one of the best as nobody has a bad word to say about them and i can only presume fanman as had a bad experience with a Parajet but i would not think for one minute they would have left you in the lurch?.

That part in question was reported in the BHPA skywings as failing about six months ago so they would definitely be aware of it hope they send a modified one back to you Duncan cheers Alan.

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Macey and Alan, what other paramotors have you owned?

errrrrrrr none!!.....as the only british one i liked was parajet....the bailey was too bendable for a beginner...i watched my mate write his off after a little bum slide...of which im famous for...in addition to faceplants!!! lol

so no....i dont offer an educated opinion on the paramotor market....but i do know enough about parajet

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Hi Fanman,

I have only owned a Parajet as well but we do have five other types of paramotor were we fly from and one of the makes i would not touch with a barge pole.

There are two of them and one is fine the other is temperamental to say the least. A lot of people fly the smaller one on here but its the larger one that is problematic.

I will say Pap paramotors are also spot on as we have a few of these at the club the only negative i would say about my Parajet is its weight when you land in farmers fields and have to find fuel to top up thats where the Paps excel, walking around with a top 80 is heaven compared with my Macro.

But for reliability power and build quality i can not knock my Parajet cheers Alan.

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The debate that ensued was not about the quality of the customer service but whether some machines need it more than others. I have owned 7 different types of machine from 6 different manufacturers (and flown a further 8 different machines) which has given me a good insight into what makes and engine types are reliable and how much support you will need and are likely to get. Support is important but reliability will dictate whether it is needed or not.

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i had the same problem, and i will always tell everyone who with - walkerjet - 3 months and threats of court action for parts, the the issues over waranty (yeah right, what waranty), that way hopefully they will go under and the better manufacturers will survive

For balance, all my emails to Walkerjet have been answered within a couple of days, they sent me spreadsheets with full parts details on for ordering, along with proforma invoices and bank transfer details. It then took a week to despatch parts (due to holidays), with full tracking info - although some were not in stock and I don't know when they will follow. I've not suffered any major problems with it (unlike other machines) so

On the positive side my machine is much lighter & more powerful (albeit noisier) than any of the others that fly locally (including the favoured British manufacturer) and parts are way cheaper (under £50 for a complete piston set including rings etc, which wasn't needed but at that price worth having as a spare). On the down side it does take longer to receive them and my specific technical questions were not answered properly due to the language barrier.

My previous machine was built in UK and took over 3 months for a minor cage repair (although it was eventually done for free due to the delays, so can't complain too much). Perhaps the only way some companies offer better customer service is by charging higher prices - both for initial purchase and for subsequent parts ? Maybe the smaller companies won't survive and we will have just 2 or 3 manufacturers - but with a worldwide system of dealers / agents to simplify parts & customer service ?

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The debate that ensued was not about the quality of the customer service but whether some machines need it more than others. I have owned 7 different types of machine from 6 different manufacturers (and flown a further 8 different machines) which has given me a good insight into what makes and engine types are reliable and how much support you will need and are likely to get. Support is important but reliability will dictate whether it is needed or not.

wow....must get good weather where you live....and more hours in the day ;-)

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