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Apco Force or Revo 2 ?


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Will be looking to upgrade my wing in the near future and am impressed with the write ups of the Revo 2 and especially the videos of the Apco Force . I've only got a couple of hours experience so far but want a wing that I won't nead to change as I become more experienced. Where could I go to get a demo of both wings so I could try them back to back before I buy?

Tim

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Haha - my thoughts exactly Tim !! :lol:

Since Apco havee only announced the Force in small & medium up to now I can't see anyone having a demo version of the large size in UK this year (I reckon I'd be pushing it too much to fly a medium). Normally I would fly a L - XL size.

As for the Revo2, I've made enquiries with Vince (and Paramania) but he only mentioned getting a size 26 in for demo (sometime after June ?) and again that would be too small for me. I would need to demo the 29 as I'm sceptical that any wing can behave exactly the same throughout a 130kg weight range (90-220 certified ?).

I know its impossible for any dealer to have demo wings of all makes, models & sizes, but I wish the manufacturers could rotate a set amongst their dealers to cater for more than just the lucky 'medium' pilots (whoever they may be) ......

For a change I'd like to base my purchasing choice on personal experience, rather than chance such an expensive decision on (perhaps biased) reviews & hype.

:roll:

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Quite right too...........

I tried and tried for ages to get a test flight on a fusion.....and in the end bought it on the reviews......I will never do that again....lesson learnt the hard way....

I should have bought the 23mtrs as it would have been that more nimble..I find the 26 a bit Dull

and as a result still fly my old wing far to often.....as its much more dynamic wing.................. dont get me wrong its a good wing its just that its not suited to me.......so please despite any temptation to buy before you fly............. DONT

ps... any body want to buy a fusion 26 with super low hours

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Quite right too...........

I tried and tried for ages to get a test flight on a fusion.....and in the end bought it on the reviews......I will never do that again....lesson learnt the hard way....

I should have bought the 23mtrs as it would have been that more nimble..I find the 26 a bit Dull

and as a result still fly my old wing far to often.....as its much more dynamic wing.................. dont get me wrong its a good wing its just that its not suited to me.......so please despite any temptation to buy before you fly............. DONT

ps... any body want to buy a fusion 26 with super low hours

What's your all up weight Gary?

And how much d'you want for your fusion?

Dan

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so please despite any temptation to buy before you fly............. DONT

If only it was that simple ....

Out of the current crop of exciting new wings there aren't even any independent test reports, certification or performance data, and certainly no demo's in the full range of sizes. They all look fantastic in the manufacturers blurb and video edits, but a prospective purchaser has absolutely zero chance of testing any back to back for a true comparison.

In reality it is either go for an old model or take a leap of faith ......

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[quote=

Since Apco havee only announced the Force in small & medium up to now I can't see anyone having a demo version of the large size in UK this year (I reckon I'd be pushing it too much to fly a medium). Normally I would fly a L - XL size.]

Apco's High performance paramotor wings all relatively small wings, Thrust HP, Vista HP and Force are only available in Small and Medium. The trend is for smaller highly loaded wings that are fast and very solid, and stable. I think this is a shame because some of us still prefer to fly larger wings, the main reason being that generally speaking less power is required.

I would consider buying a Force if they made one about 29-30m squared (area)

Paul D

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I see Apco state an all up weight of 100 to 165kgs for the medium Force, this is is 5kgs at the top end heavier than say a Fusion in large although being 2 metres smaller at 27 metres so do they actually need to make a large.

At 130ish kilos all up would I not be suited to the Force? I suppose it all comes back trying to get a test flight .

Looks like I'll be sticking to my Old Mary Rose sail cloth wing untill demos become available. :lol:

Tim

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REVO 2 vs Force is an excellent question right now. I am sure it will all come out sooner or later and they will both have their followers.

Buy before you fly? I have done that but with lots of talk and research. Sometimes if you want the latest thing it is the only way to do it as there simply is not a demo available. There are shows coming up where both wings will be available to try back to back.

I have Revo2 29's and 26's on order. I can see no reason for the REVO2 not to obtain the goal of EN/B. Looking at the Fusion test report it is mostly A's except for a couple of items which are trade offs for maneuverability ie short brake travel making it an EN/C wing. Even benign wings like the Synthesis are EN/C.

Some of this was a little bit irrelevant in the past when all my flying was done on full fast, but now on the Fusion I fly at all trim ranges including full slow and EN certification is then more important.

I am waiting to see the aims of the Force (en/c) and LD ratio as all the speed has to come from somewhere.

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Here Here..

I for one also think that the wing producers should supply demos (if even only for a test week) or similar.

Dudek are good at this, and always say yes to a demo wing to me as a dealer in the past and present.

Paramania as a dealer I have always had to buy the demo wings and have been trying to fly a 20 Fusion for a year now.

Apco, Watch this space

Producers need to understand the need for test flights and demo wings. The Synth is my best example of this, in that, I was given one, as a demo, and sold loads, after test flights.

The Fusion is the same but I am less happy about sending people up on it because its NOT a demo wing, it's my wing that I paid for like everyone else....

not asking you to weep of course LOL

But it is the way to sell wings, you would not pay £2300 for a car before a test drive would you?

SW :D

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  • 4 months later...
Here Here..

I for one also think that the wing producers should supply demos (if even only for a test week) or similar.

Dudek are good at this, and always say yes to a demo wing to me as a dealer in the past and present.

Paramania as a dealer I have always had to buy the demo wings and have been trying to fly a 20 Fusion for a year now.

Apco, Watch this space

Producers need to understand the need for test flights and demo wings. The Synth is my best example of this, in that, I was given one, as a demo, and sold loads, after test flights.

The Fusion is the same but I am less happy about sending people up on it because its NOT a demo wing, it's my wing that I paid for like everyone else....

not asking you to weep of course LOL

But it is the way to sell wings, you would not pay £2300 for a car before a test drive would you?

SW :D

Come down to weston! you can try my 20, its GREAT!!!

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August 2010: FORCE certification

NEW TWIST LOCK CARABINERS

Finally after a long wait, we are glad to confirm - Force M successfully completed all certification test flights. It is rated EN C on trim speed and fully accelerated on speed bar

Click here for FORCE Flight test report...

Now, it is obvious - Force is a winner and due to popular demand we will be adding a Force L to complete the range of Force to suit heavier pilots and for trike flying.

This is a section of copy from the Apco webb site, as you can see they do intend to produce the Force in a large

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

This is a Dealers letter, a week ago, from Apco. They say that a Force L is in the works and they will start taking orders (from dealers) soon!!!!

It seems that the reason that is is so hard to get a test flight on the force is that Apco can't keep up with the demand. It seems like a good sign but as time goes by more and more wings will be out there and my suggestion is to always test fly and decide for yourself.

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com ... JBLSffQ%3D

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

I have been informed that the problem with the Apco Thrust HP mentioned on the Picolights@yahoogroups.com forum has now been resolved.

Apco are still busy with the production of the Apco Force and the availability of the large size seems to be keeping them busy through the winter. The opening of a new second Apco factory should help to reduce delivery times.

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At the moment the Apco Force is the only reflex wing that is certified with the speed bar (without trimmers open) - maybe there is a new wing that has this certification, or one I may have missed?

The Apco Force is the only reflex wing to use double siliconised material - excellent on those damp days to stop the wing becoming heavy and damp, or to prevent the dirt getting into the fabric. The material is the same weight, or lighter than equivalent nylon material, but has the advantage of lasting longer.

I thought I would also add a comment in this topic regarding test flying wings to see how they compare - during my 10 years of supplying paramotoring equipment I have always had demo wings available available for my customers (not all sizes in the different types of wings), so I was able to give most of my customers the chance to fly before they buy. I think that it would be a good idea if dealers should have at least one demo wing, but what do the pilots and dealers think?

I know that some people buy cars, bikes, boats etc based on a photo, sales adverts, recommendation etc, but I wonder how many people buy a wing without flying it?

Paul Haxby

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Hi Paul,

I bought my ReAction wing without first flying it, with 30 hours flying experience. Anything was going to be an improvement on the knackered paraglider I had before and I wanted to upgrade to a reflex.

I was/am very happy with the ReAction but I would definately test fly before buying a new wing.

Cheers,

Alan

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Paul,

I think all demo wings should be in the largest size, for normal chaps like me .... I'll happily supply ballast bags for Mr Joe Average dwarf to test fly them !! :mrgreen:

On a serious note I think it should be mandatory for manufacturers to provide their nominated dealers with demo wings (not possible for every retailer) in all sizes. If the cost of this is too high they should at least rotate a set around Europe for 6 weeks or so per country to allow prospective customers to try them., or at least attend a couple of the main fly-in's.

I know Deano did a tour of UK clubs & schools last August with a van load of Paramania gear to demo, so it is certainly possible.

Things are ever more confusing now aal the big brands have caught "Dell fever" - with every new release being touted as the best ever, super easy to launch, super stable, super fast, super everything ...

Reviews can't always be trusted to be unbiased, and a B or a C rating tells us next to nothing, as most of us won't be flying it in the way it was certified anyway. It tells us nothing about how a wing 'feels' - and I know there are some big differences in that area .... :roll:

So yes, any effort to make demo's available should be applauded. :D

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