matt_k Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Hi Guys On a complete not a sausage nil wind forward would it be better to have the revolution trims full in or out 1" (recomended take off position)? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Hi Matt, I always use full slow on take off and landing on low wind days cheers Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 There's not right or wrong answer... but just whatever suits you.... Logic says that full trim tab would be easier... slower flying characteristics...etc... should be easier to launch... but in practice i find that the wing can be a bit hesitant to come right up overhead- therefore i keep the trim tabs at their take off point (1")... If the wing doesn't fully come up overhead, there is a risk it wont inflate properly at all, or 'hang back' in the stall position- i had this once, and thought i was flying... but the wing was in 'stall' mode, and although i was flying, i couldn't gain any height at all.. despite being on full throttle.... When forward launching in zero winds, keep a bit of pressure behind the 'A's and keep running, with eyes forward.... You will feel when the wing is overhead, resistance seems to disappear, and you feel the full thrust of the motor.. Keep running, and eyes forward and you'll be fine. Not easy though... PS.. give yourself plenty of room to run on zero wind days!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) Hi GuysOn a complete not a sausage nil wind forward would it be better to have the revolution trims full in or out 1" (recomended take off position)? Cheers hi .it really depends on skill of pilot. your flying a reflex wing. if it was me ill do on a nil wind launch not a sausage take off. a power launch, my question is can you do a power launch? trims set at revolution guide lines.if you can. try that.:0).......ppg 400 hrs.and landings try with power to slow decent land and turn switch engine off Edited May 21, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 i had this once, and thought i was flying... but the wing was in 'stall' mode, and although i was flying, i couldn't gain any height at all.. despite being on full throttle.... So how far did you travel before touching down again Gordon, just out of interest Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I was flying with feet just above the ground at full throttle- still not in the harness... for about 30meters... there was a hedge at the far end of the field getting closer by the second, and i decided not to risk it... and cut the engine... A 'low hour' collegue of mine had a similar experience, but a bad field selection (small field and down hill gradient) and not realising he was in trouble... meant that he got stuck in the hedge.. suspended by the wing!!!! Im not sure if the wing could have recovered from the stall.... in these situations, if any thing does not seem as expected or normal... its time to land. Lessons to be learned... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 As motors get more and more powerful and bought by people with less and less experience we will see a spate of incidents from people using motor thrust to get airborne before the wing is properly ready to fly. That is of course if they haven't torqued themselves into a heap first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Yes- i agree... Also a lot of people belive the 'power launch' is the only way in zero wind.... i've seen a lot of broken props as a result.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 There's not right or wrong answer... but just whatever suits you....Logic says that full trim tab would be easier... slower flying characteristics...etc... should be easier to launch... but in practice i find that the wing can be a bit hesitant to come right up overhead- therefore i keep the trim tabs at their take off point (1")... I agree that everyone has their own take on launches, but hope that sharing my technique may be of use. I learned to fly on a Revo and struggled with nil wind forward launches in my early days (used to dread nil wind and now love it!) The first trick is to lay the wing out perfectly flat with the tips folded over to prevent them inflating early. I also find that the trim set 1" out helps the wing to more readily come up overhead. I then run the motor to about 1/4 revs with the thrust going over the centre of the wing for a few seconds. I then make my initial forward lunge of a few steps to bring the wing up, but early on when I was struggling I equated a bigger continued pull with a successful launch which was wrong. After the initial lunge and a few forward steps, I actually ease off the forward pressure until the wing is locked in over head. Only then do apply full throttle and max running speed. Then it's just the prolonged run into the air and you are away! Hope this makes sense? Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Ian, it's a good idea to come off that 1/4 throttle before commencing the run so you don't upset the god of gyroscopic forces! Is that what you meant but didn't write? I too find Paramania wings are really helped by folding over the tips on a forward launch (personally I just pull the center of the wing back so it forms more of a V) because the manufacturer does not fit split A risers, which is a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 To be honest it took some thought and was a personally useful exercise to unpick what has become an automatic launch sequence! Thinking about it in more detail (actually standing in the living room with my eyes shut and running through a launch while thinking about what my throttle hand was doing!) I keep the throttle at about 1/4 open as the wing comes up so that there is a nice steady laminar airflow over the wing. The Parajet compact isn't too badly affected by torque, and by the time I'm running I'm at full throttle anyway! Always good to appraise and improve how we go about things though. Thanks, Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 As you commence your pull up the airflow you are creating is not really 'steady' or 'laminar'. It's not the torque that's so much the problem with holding power on, it's the precession when you try to rotate the spinning prop disc from leaning forward on pull up to leaning back for the take off run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 It's always a good idea to get someone to video your launches- preferably without you being aware! It's great to self-critique them, and examine the various bad habits/good habits, etc.. Always better if it's a fellow pilot, as they understand what you are looking for. Even the most basic video editor package can do slow-mo.... I always find a side profile the most useful.... as you can see thrust angle, etc... and wing behavour more clearly. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poz Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 This is a cracking post for newbies like me. This is where this great forum comes into its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_k Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) Having learnt forwards on a rad mxl ive relied on technique instead of power! but i will have a go at the power launch on the next nil wind not a sausage day. Its good hearing all the different methods that are used,different strokes for different blokes i guess!(no matter how many hours) Cheers Edited May 24, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 i had this once, and thought i was flying... but the wing was in 'stall' mode, and although i was flying, i couldn't gain any height at all.. despite being on full throttle.... So how far did you travel before touching down again Gordon, just out of interest Cheers, Alan ok.....read what u said.as long as u take off agianst the wind and there is no rotor from far away.or near youll take off no trouble. if there is any rotor and depending on the skill of the pilot.youll know what to do .hence experience.no one is perfect.a instructor i know which i dislike.and wont name "DONT GET YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE YOUR GOING TO CRASH"i kept my mouth shut because he was talking all bollocks.thinking if i can tell the future i wouldnt of got myself into in the first place.i also thought i wonder how many accidents hes ever had.then i can quote hes saying to him and see how he likes it.....and alan when in a full stall your travelling down wards.and does it really matter how far he travelled?how many air hours have you alan from france? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Hi Luke, As I said I just asked out of interest. It's a good highlight to have plenty of space in front of you for all eventualities. 57 hours to date, EDIT at 11:00, 58 and a half, Brilliant Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 In these days of super duper powerful motors with crazy power to weight ratios it is quite possible to have a stalled wing with forward momentum so perhaps you might want to rethink how cocksure you are in your reply Luke. Learning this game requires two key things... a guide who can communicate effectively and a student who knows how to listen. Regards Fanman (just enough hours to know a little bit about this game but still learning all the time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 After all this discussion and recommendations for nil wind launches I have a tale of cock-up to share! Practically nill wind last night. Spent lots of time setting up as stated then started my run. Wing came up lovely and straight. Started to climb a couple of foot but continued to run which was lucky as I sank back to the ground. The second and usually successful climb came and I prematurely went for the seat. Started sinking back to the ground but then couldn't get the speed of my legs to match the speed accross the ground. It felt like a fast face plant was coming on but slid onto my knees and hands while trying to go for the kill switch. Wasn't quick enough to kill the engine before the slide converted into a bum slide. The landing forced the prop onto a couple of cable ties holding the netting in place on the bottom of the cage which shattered 2 of the 3 prop tips. No damage to myself other than my ego. Have swapped my spare (ground adjustable) prop onto the motor while I source a new Parajet prop. Lesson learned - Keep running until definately climbing out!!! Fly safe! Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Bad luck irm... It can happen anyone.... Luke.. Old pilots and bold pilots..... i've almost 400 hours now, and still consider myself as learning all the time. The day you get complacent about flying is the day it will bite you... and if it gets a chance it bites bad... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Yes- i agree... Also a lot of people belive the 'power launch' is the only way in zero wind.... i've seen a lot of broken props as a result.... .................ive seen broken bones just doing a normal launch.............its called pilot error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 In these days of super duper powerful motors with crazy power to weight ratios it is quite possible to have a stalled wing with forward momentum so perhaps you might want to rethink how cocksure you are in your reply Luke. Learning this game requires two key things... a guide who can communicate effectively and a student who knows how to listen.Regards Fanman (just enough hours to know a little bit about this game but still learning all the time) cocksure replying. how many hours is abit? and can you do a power launch and land useing power?and more hours a pilot has the better.and when in take off made your gaining height or trying to .bring your hands down will cause a collapse.so with the time and experience you bring your hands up so wing will come forward perviding these no rotor in front of you . and did I ever say i know everything?like i said i have had accidents .and when i heard the instructor saying about it .if you read .i also said he talked some bollocks.so ....lets get this correct about power launching only to be used depending on skill of pilot. i said.hence how many air hours i asked? still got no reply.only from pilots i also dont know if they can do power launches no one says yes or no ?i dont want any accidents. if i also ask a question it would be nice to get a reply from the pilot who first asked.the rest of the pilots here didnt answer only gordon dunn.flying is like life for ever learning.and when newbies read this there gathering info ....USEFULL INFO from a fellow pilot who wants to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poz Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 In these days of super duper powerful motors with crazy power to weight ratios it is quite possible to have a stalled wing with forward momentum so perhaps you might want to rethink how cocksure you are in your reply Luke. Learning this game requires two key things... a guide who can communicate effectively and a student who knows how to listen.Regards Fanman (just enough hours to know a little bit about this game but still learning all the time) cocksure replying. how many hours is abit? and can you do a power launch and land useing power?and more hours a pilot has the better.and when in take off made your gaining height or trying to .bring your hands down will cause a collapse.so with the time and experience you bring your hands up so wing will come forward perviding these no rotor in front of you . ok cock man Sorry Luke, I simply cannot understand what you just wrote. Therefore I don't know if you have a point or not. Could you please clarify. Thanks Dan ps I don't have any hours ,..... but as with anything I am really interested to learn from anyone with a good, non-aggresive attitude, who knows more than me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Bad luck irm...It can happen anyone.... Luke.. Old pilots and bold pilots..... i've almost 400 hours now, and still consider myself as learning all the time. The day you get complacent about flying is the day it will bite you... and if it gets a chance it bites bad... GD did i ever say iam complacent?.i dont have the amount of air hours set beside the type of paramotor .you do thou. like you said .never get complacent.iam just showing the pilots just how you show the pilots.look at my name no air hours next to it .think before you chit chat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_k Posted May 25, 2010 Author Share Posted May 25, 2010 Hi Luke I have only 9hrs and never tried a full on power launch,i sometimes give a little blip to help the wing up when its has gone passed the motors thrust, given the right conditions i will give it a try, but my question was really the best recomended trim settings on a revolution on a nil wind day, I have had a few nil wind take offs since i have asked the question and found the wing does seem to come up quicker in take off position (1") Thanks for the help guys its been useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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