Guest Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 just curious is there any ruling n the bhpa that says one must carry a reserve to have there insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The BHPAs insurance is 3rd party (ie protecting against damage occuring to someone else) whereas a reserve is carried to protect the 1st party (ie you). I don't know for sure but I'm not aware of there being a reserve requirement. After all for training a reserve could be considered an extra hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 No- reserves are not mandatory. Yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 i would not free fly with out one... As i have seen a few chutes been thrown and they have walked away with minor injuries. I will not be flying my ppg without one when it comes... YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN ITS GOING TO GO WRONG!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 just curious is there any ruling n the bhpa that says one must carry a reserve to have there insurance? Why are you asking about the BHPA ruling, or are you a member? you can get Insurance from onrisk. Remember you may never use your resurve BUT that one time you do if you dont have it you may not survive the landing!!! Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcs Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I honestly think that if you don't fly without a reserve then you had just as well go and put your neck on a railway line! It weighs a couple of kg, its not like it weighs you down, I'm 105kg ish and never take off with less than 10 litres of fuel! I believe it should be a LEGAL requirement to fly with one as you could so easily injur others when you hit the ground like a speeding bullet with no warning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I believe it should be a LEGAL requirement to fly with one as you could so easily injur others when you hit the ground like a speeding bullet with no warning! There would be a warning - "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH!" OK. Much less of a warning than you could give if you were suspended under a reserve! I do agree that pilots should consider always flying with a reserve and now that I am beyond my first couple of flights I never leave the ground without mine. There is a school of thought which says that the increased complexity and procedures/checks can actually add to the risks for new pilots though. After my first few flights without a reserve I would get a sick feeling in my stomach when I was flying caused by the knowledge that if the worst happened that my reserve was safely tucked away in the understairs cupboard! Don't know about making it law though as I believe that beauracracy is bad? Perhaps it should be left for PMC the BHPA and other clubs to decide whether to stipulate their use at official sites/flyins/competitions etc. Best regards, Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Don't know about making it law though as I believe that beauracracy is bad? Perhaps it should be left for PMC the BHPA and other clubs to decide whether to stipulate their use at official sites/flyins/competitions etc. Best regards, Ian. Totaly agree. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I honestly think ...... I'm 105kg ish and never take off with less than 10 litres of fuel!...quote]But if it's 1/2 hour from sunset, and your motor does 3 litres per hour (hypothetically), why would you need to put more than 3 litres + 1 reserve litre in the tank??? Based on flying upto 30mins after sunset within legal VFR conditions..... I measure my fuel load to suit the flight plan... trying to take off in zero wind with a 10litre fuel load, for a 20 minute flight is a lot of wasted effort in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 mine is attached to motor all time so i always fly with it, i was just asking due to a comment from a experienced bhpa member, i asked do you fly with a reserve, his answer was no , if i thought i needed one i would not fly,, i just found it a comical answer really as i thought the point of the reserve is because you just never know when you need it... so it got me thinking if bhpa have a ruling to fly with one, that was all the question was for really.. as much as i have read reserves can cause a lot more harm than good if one isnt trained or experienced with them, knowin when to throw and all the rest of the details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Leoib-- as the popular DVD states.... it's Risk and Reward..... During clement conditions, with stable laminar air, and normal flying, with a stable reflex wing the risk of a collapse and need for reserve deployment is minimal. On the otherhand if you decide to fly in unstable air, thermic conditions, and introduce an element of aerbatics.... then there is a higher chance you'll need a reserve. We all have different comfort zones- and know our own boundaries. When you ask if someone uses a reserve or not- you also need to ask about their flying habits. I'm not a risk taker... i only fly in stable conditions- perhaps i miss some flying opportunities, but with over 100hours last year alone i don't think i'm too bad. I've never had any reason to feel unsafe, or vulnerable to a collapse while in the air. I don't feel there is a need for me to carry a reserve.... but i guess it wouldn't be a bad thing to have. Better looking at it, than looking for it!! I intend to get one soon- but purely down to the reason that I need one to compete in the 2010 Nationals- they are Mandatory for the event. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 yes i like that one. looking at it than looking for it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 as much as i have read reserves can cause a lot more harm than good if one isnt trained or experienced with them, knowin when to throw and all the rest of the details I don't think I can think of any circumstances, where, if you've thrown a reserve, it is going to do more harm than if you hadn't thrown it, training and experience or not. The only conceivable argument I can imagine is that someone inexperienced might throw their reserve when the situation could be saved by appropriate pilotage. But then if you are that inexperienced, are you going to have the skills required to fly yourself out of a situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 not sure about making it a legal requirement, if that had been the case I would not have flown yet, due to the cost, when a lot of people first get into this sport, myself included, they do so on a limited budget, I dont fly with a reserve for the simple fact I cant afford one, it will be my next purchase and I am putting money aside for that purpose. as Gordon has said,its about the risk you are willing to take, I think you can and people have, flown for years without having a reserve, but fait can be a cruel co pilot and you never now what could occur. Rmember, expect the unexpected. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cageuk Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) as much as i have read reserves can cause a lot more harm than good if one isnt trained or experienced with them, knowin when to throw and all the rest of the details I don't think I can think of any circumstances, where, if you've thrown a reserve, it is going to do more harm than if you hadn't thrown it, training and experience or not. The only conceivable argument I can imagine is that someone inexperienced might throw their reserve when the situation could be saved by appropriate pilotage. But then if you are that inexperienced, are you going to have the skills required to fly yourself out of a situation? I agree that once you have thrown the reserve the situation is unlikely to be worse than if you hadn't thrown it taking the assumption that the reason for deployment was a genuine life threatening situation. Having said that I have seen a vid of a deployment that bought a pg pilot down inverted(head down)! It was an SIV course over water, dread to think what would have happened over land. Certain things need to be taken into account in a deployment. Once the reserve is deployed you should try to pull your own wing in so that it doesn't interfere with the operation of the reserve. Also watch where you are dropping and prepare yourself for what ever landing you are about to experience, tree/water/land etc. The main problem with reserves is everything else. Bridle routing is often discussed particularly with PPG's where the harness do not have a built in reserve pod so that DIY options can sometimes be dangerous. Premature deployments, often on take off can be very dodgy. My own reserve fell out of it's pod after a some bad forward launch attempts. Luckily it didn't deploy, but makes me wonder that if I had managed to take off would my next problem have been a fully deployed reserved 20ft+ up! Why is it proper pre-flights often get forgotten after a few aborted launch attempts? I would always fly with a reserve though for all the previously stated reasons. If you can afford it, the weight is not much in the grand scheme of things, just make sure you pre-flight it. I've never thrown my reserve except in a repack situation. My second ever reserve throw on my freeflight failed as I had mis-routed the deployment handle on a previous repack on a poorly designed reserve pod. This was rectified PDQ. In my opinion even if you do fly in calm conditions, laminar, low or nil winds with a reflex wing that a reserve is definately a good idea still. You can not rule out catastrophic failure of wing or motor. i.e. brake line getting caught in prop and wound in, prop shatters damaging lines/canopy, mid air collision if flying with buddies or with kites/tall structures and other eventualities that we can't even think of. I've seen someone get a brake in the prop in flight when previously it seemed like it could not happen! Luckily it broke and an emergency landing ensued. My tuppence worth! Edited June 18, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcs Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I honestly think ...... I'm 105kg ish and never take off with less than 10 litres of fuel!...quote]But if it's 1/2 hour from sunset, and your motor does 3 litres per hour (hypothetically), why would you need to put more than 3 litres + 1 reserve litre in the tank??? Based on flying upto 30mins after sunset within legal VFR conditions..... I measure my fuel load to suit the flight plan... trying to take off in zero wind with a 10litre fuel load, for a 20 minute flight is a lot of wasted effort in my opinion. I keep it topped up so its ready to fly and I generally decide how long I'm up for once I'm airborne, if I have a full tank then I have a choice, if I have 3 litres I don't and I hate the thought of running out. I see your point about effort but if I can haul my arse off the ground with all that weight on board then its good practice and fitness. I must admit though I did have to abort a marathon run on Monday after failing to unstick, slightly uphill and virtually nil wind! Different strokes for different folks, personally if I couldn't afford a reserve then I wouldn't fly but each to their own! Cheers Malc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 good points, i did some sort of talk on reserves with a chap , and one experienced guy pulled his and it didnt come out it took two people to get the reserve out lol, the other thing which was brought up is that if some of the reserves been needed some would have probably took the pilots head of due to the routing of the bridles, id sooner have mine no matter how calm or safe it seems cos as was stated you just never never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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