Yarich Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Hello everybody! Thinking about buying new wing for me this winter. I exactly know that I will enjoy flying the Revolution wing, because I tested it. And also I'm interested with Synthesis wing. Maybe I'll like it more, but I don't have an chance to try it. Does anybody can compare this two wings, please? Which of the wings more dynamic/speddy(on open trimmers)? Thank you. P.S. I am Russian. Sorry for my english Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 You may find the answers you get here are not really very independent! Lots of threads on this part of the forum, read them all but for every recent thread also read one from the early days. Good luck. Incoming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 What shame we don't have a strong comparative index for the various wings around. Yes, what V23b says is true, so much opinion seems to be based on what the various sell and not on the relative merits of the wings. We also tend to be individually biased toward the last purchase we made - perfectly natural. What we could do with is a 'Which' for wings but I doubt we will see one soon unless the community gets together and produces one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathboy Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Having not owned, flown, bought or sold either. This is my from the ground opinion. 1) Neither are a beginner wing, but a Synth is closer to one than the Revo 2) More second hand "I'm giving up" low hours Revo's around, possibly due to 1) 3) Having marshalled at the 2007 UK NATS, the Synth looked easier to launch in nil wind, both were okay with wind. Cheers Paul P.S. Norman, You've flown owned both, I've flown Action and a Nova. Shall we have a go at starting your 'Which' idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Paul, That is a great idea but to be scientific the conditions need to be controlled don't they. V23b has done some comparative work across a couple of different wing types and had some interesting results, sometimes not at all what the scuttlebutt seems to suggest. As for me getting involved, I don't currently have the time or experience to devote to the project unfortunately. But what a valuable one for the wider community? Similar rules as applied by 'Which' would need to apply I think. No involvement by the wing manufacturers and and strictly controlled conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathboy Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Paul,That is a great idea but to be scientific the conditions need to be controlled don't they. V23b has done some comparative work across a couple of different wing types and had some interesting results, sometimes not at all what the scuttlebutt seems to suggest. As for me getting involved, I don't currently have the time or experience to devote to the project unfortunately. But what a valuable one for the wider community? Similar rules as applied by 'Which' would need to apply I think. No involvement by the wing manufacturers and and strictly controlled conditions. I agree you'd want some scientific (numeric) stuff, but not all. Touchy opinions like 'ease', 'feel' and 'confidence' can be more important in many circumstances that mpg, min/max speed etc. Any other thoughts? Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Paul, Agreed, the comparative numbers on fuel consumption/speed and settings are the 'griss of the mill'. The aesthetics are very important and for general handling and local work they probably matter more. Quite a project for someone to take on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_c Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I've not got into the air yet as the weather has let us down time and again. I have however done a good bit of ground work with a Synth and found it to be really nice to pull up even in very low winds. If there is ever a wing that might allow you to do a reverse launch in silly low winds it's a Synth. This will be my 3rd wing and I recon I'll be able to enjoy it for a long time without feeling inferior or outdated. As the sport evolves I recon this wing will be "the one" for a good few years to come. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I am 110% happy that we were using Revos for the Tip to Tip and I am sure that if you ask any one of the other 7 pilots you will have the same response. Yes I do sell them so to make my views more independant, please buy it from someone else. That wing has kept us all safe (and alive) in conditions that wings have not been tested in until now. The DVD will help with your decision if you can wait that long. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonphotographic Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I've just got home and am in the process of sorting the still images I took during the event. If you REALLY can't wait for the DVD, images will be on my website in the next day or two which will clearly show the conditions the pilots were flying in. to a man, each of the pilots expressed differences about the way the wings performed compared to their own wings, but equally, ALL were impressed when the going got heavy. Find an instructor who uses the wing you are interested in, go and play with it. Even if it costs you 50 quid for half a day, that's better than paying 2 grand and wondering if it was the right wing for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I fly a reaction slowish landing and take off in nil wind solid on fast trim ok on slow Revolution fast take off and landing in nil wind rock solid on slow and fast trim but it does swing you around under it a little more than the reaction. I was flying on full slow trim most of the time and the wing handeled all that was thrown at it. if it was a little slower take off/ landing it would be perfect. Pete b This is only my opinion between these two wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcphoto Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I was flying on full slow trim most of the time and the wing handeled all that was thrown at it. Why were you flying on full slow all the time Pete? I have always made sure I fly on fast trim if conditions are turbulent. Is it not the case that fast trim makes reflex wings MUCH less likely to collapse? John Coutts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 It was my fault... I was much slower than most of the other pilots, I should have been on a size down, so they all had to pull in a bit of trim for us to stay as a group. I had/have lost a load of weight before and during the trip. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Simon - Cheese burgers are the cure! Regarding the wing comparison - I fly a revolution 28 and it gives me confidence, which in my opinion is 80% of the battle for a newbie. Yes, it is not the easiest to forward launch (only recently had one successful forward so far in 14 flights) but hopefully this indicates that my technique is improving. Yarich - Instead of synthesis which I feel is pitched at the same level as our revolutions, why not consider a Reaction as per PeteB's suggestion? My instructor has access to Paramania and Dudek and flys a reaction which I will hopefully get to fly in the next couple of flights when the conditions are right. He feels that this would be the next step up, seems easier to forward and is more responsive and efficient. (or maybe this is just his experience showing through?) Best regards, Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I went down the Pork Pie route.... ( since the stop at the Yorkshire Paramotor Club I have developed a bit of a taste for them !! ) I recon its down to stress and burn rate V input of food. But a cheese Burger for Breakfast hummmmmmmm?? SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 The main difference I see in design between the two in question is the radius of the curve and the length of the lines. Comparing the synth 27 and the revo 26 The synth has a slightly smaller surface area and is pulled into a tighter arc and has slightly longer lines. Glider Synth Revo Span(flat) 11.7 11.7 Span(projected) 9.4 10.6 Line length 7.52 7.0 Aspect ratio(proj) 3.8:1 4.6:1 The effect is that a very similar plan form is altered by the suspension system to very differnt gliders. The Revo has a higer aspect ratio making its speed range narrower (they both fly similar top speeds but revo does not fly as slow) and also the shorter line length on the revo retains the agility even though the aspect ratio is higher. These differences would likely make the revo seem a little more "agile" and the synth seem more "stable", but these are pilot perceptions. In fact they have identical certifications, EN C and DMSV B. The certifications are to do with recovery from events and it is the acknowledged "wisdom" that these certifications make them unsuitable for beginners. I am not sure this is necessarily the case; I put my own son on a DHV 2 (comparable to EN C) wing as his first glider. Ability, confidence and aptitude of the pilot, his schooling and experience all play a part in his ability to remain safe on a wing that requires more pilot input for "event recovery". From personal experience I would say that the revo needs careful briefing (tuition) when a pilot converts from a standard paraglider. The higher take off speed, the need for correct body posture and understanding the correct trimmer settings are things that need to be taught. My limited knowledge and memory of the Synth is that it has slower take off but similar briefings are needed for its correct use. Landing either wing is simple, if a little faster than a standard wing but the technique of coming in fast and levelling off just above ground is easily learned and very effective. (t is also used on a standard glider when coming down through a steep wind gradient so I am well used to the concept.) I see no reason why a newly qualified pilot should not fly these wings provided they and their instructor were happy that their confidence and abilities were sufficient but I would probably not initially train a pilot using these wings (others do initial training on them successfully). During the tip to tip I began to explore the revo's characteristics and found some interesting techniques to maximise the lift from turbulence (and we did have some of that) by body rolling and using throttle as pitch control (rather than just getting chucked about). This is similar to riding turbulence in a standard glider but without using any brake control (that is the unnerving bit!!!¬!) I would dearly love to experience similar conditions on a Synth, but any such comparisons are tainted because I already have an affection for the revo, and "similar conditions" on a synth might seem less daunting the seond time around. As far as direct comparisons go, flying them side by side in the same air and obtaining fuel consumption, sink rate, speed range, take off and landing etc figures could be done quite fairly and accurately. Subjective judgements, though, are perhaps a little unfair as one pilot's "getting chucked around" is another's chuckle zone and phrases like "ease of launch" applies to individual's technique as much as the design. We compare wings in gliding circles and my preference is for a very agile wing that can turn very sharply and retain energy, others find a glider that stays very flat is their preference. Since this can be to do with the choice of harness geometry as much as the wing design (and harnesses for gliding come in three sorts; height and width of hang point, and cross bracing) but in PPG the harness geometry is often unique to the brand of motor, so a wing that is rock solid on one motor may seem a lot more twitchy on another with different geometry. Just some thoughts, F Boy, I do ramble on don't I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Ramble away Francis, from your 'ramblings' my knowledge and perspectives expand. You make me think...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I had noticed from the tip to tip photos that Colin was trying to feed pork pie to one of the Macros. That must have been your one that he was trying to fatten up for you then Simon! http://www.flickr.com/photos/28499398@N04/2741118537/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarich Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Thank you everybody for your answers! Especially to francis777. I moved to another city, so exurse me for keeping silence(I lived on i.Sakhalin near Japan. now closer to Moscow). I translate allmost every word in this topic and finally understood that I would buy Revo. but i found a new interesting wing Macpara velvet. does anybody herd about it? As I've understood this is something beetween actionGT and Revo. One of my friend said that this is the wing I should buy. And one more question. When you fly on revolution on open trimmers wthat is the sink rate in fact?(on flyparamania it wroten down that it's 2ms, but Ive herd that it is ca be 3 or more.) With best reagrds from Russia PS If I have mistakes and you dont understand me sometimes, please tell me and i will take a big dictionary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarich Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Great! I saw Simon's post about new wing paramania fusion. I think this is the wing i need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Hey Yarich, what a wonderful thing that we have guys from as far away as Russia interested enough to come here and translate what they read! Maybe we should fly to Moscow to see if the Vodka tastes the same as it does in Manchester! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarich Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 Thanks But I can fly only on Sakhalin maybe you that on sakhalin we have some oil and gas projects and i met two English men. They are good guys. One of them flies ppg too. He is a real hero, because he is 63 years old! May be thats why I chose an UK forum to talk. Reading this forum gives me a chance to enbroad my knowledges in my English and about reflex profiles. You see, we have cheap russian wings for motoring, which are dhv 1. And only a few people fly on reflex wings. Others talking thats this wings dangerous nervous behaving, but i think the real reason, that they are more expensive. But I flew on used Gin Oasis for two years. Thats enough. Now I am more interested in ppg flights, because it gives more freedom. And speed of reflex will give me more freedom. We usually have strong wind. And we have a lot of beatifull places on Sakhalin where to fly. So...Welcome It is not so bad in Russia as you think in any case. its a peasure for me to read your forum. I upload some photos of flying days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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