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What size wing are you flying?


Hann__
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What size wing are you flying?  

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  1. 1. What size wing are you flying?

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    • No-one flies bigger than 31 these days!
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Wings seem to be getting smaller - or is that just what we`re seeing in the media merry-go round?

What size wings are people actually flying?

 

**edit

this is a follow-on to my musings on the `Freeride` topic..

Edited by Hann__
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Started paramotoring 17 years ago first wing was a Nova Artax 31 metre paragliding wing and as time went on my wings got smaller

          Power play sting  27

          Paramania Action 27

Paramania Action GT 27

Paramania GTR 22

Paramania GTX24

Dudek Snake XX 20

I prefer the smaller wings as they are easier to launch and land,  My cruise speed is now 10 mph faster than the Nova Artax

 

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I think this for me is part of flying smaller wings. Larger wings of my old days, launch, trims out and fly. Smaller wings have speed at slower trims, I fly and play more in slower trims and generally only let them out to go from A to B.

One thing it did do. Just as much as going from paraglider to reflex opened up my flying area, so has going smaller. Initially flying at a standstill at 2000ft and maybe getting to the next village and back, reflex opened me up to a triangle or the next town and back. Smaller wing has given me larger scope to fly further in a given time. For me its time more than economy. If I fly 2 hours before dark, it just happens that way due to work commitments. In that time I get further and see more. Wind gradient is less of an issue. It has widened my weather window.

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16 hours ago, GR002 said:

Started paramotoring 17 years ago first wing was a Nova Artax 31 metre paragliding wing and as time went on my wings got smaller

          Power play sting  27

          Paramania Action 27

Paramania Action GT 27

Paramania GTR 22

Paramania GTX24

Dudek Snake XX 20

I prefer the smaller wings as they are easier to launch and land,  My cruise speed is now 10 mph faster than the Nova Artax

 

Hi GR002, this is interesting and exactly the information i have been after. When you say the 20m snake is easier to launch and land in what way is that the case? I can guess the launch part however landing???

I curently paramotor with a 25 m Dudek Universal. Most of my flying hours are free flying, i currently free fly a 2 liner Icepeak 6 (23 m)...i find the energy in thie Icepeak terrifying, but at the same time the lack of energy in lower end gliders frustrating!

Edited by adamjedgar
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23 hours ago, GR002 said:

Dudek Snake XX 20

I prefer the smaller wings as they are easier to launch and land,  My cruise speed is now 10 mph faster than the Nova Artax

 

 

17 hours ago, JamieG said:

116kg all up flying an original Snake 22. Level flight and trimmers in, I have the same rpm as I did on my old Synth 29. Much easier to launch also. :D

This is interesting.

Do these smaller `hot` wings make good XC choices - quick (cover a lot of ground and penetrate well into headwinds) but retain enough efficiency and lift to make them easy to fly with in a relaxed way?

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6 hours ago, adamjedgar said:

Hi GR002, this is interesting and exactly the information i have been after. When you say the 20m snake is easier to launch and land in what way is that the case? I can guess the launch part however landing???

I curently paramotor with a 25 m Dudek Universal. Most of my flying hours are free flying, i currently free fly a 2 liner Icepeak 6 (23 m)...i find the energy in thie Icepeak terrifying, but at the same time the lack of energy in lower end gliders frustrating!

The smaller wings are easier to launch on nil wind or low wind conditions as you can get them over head very easy and fast compared to a large wing which would come up slower with the chance of falling to one side or not coming completely over head. Ok the run is faster but with a bit of brake input its not a problem. On a windy day the smaller wings are easier handled as they do not drag you about as much as a larger wing so its a win win situation. As for landings on the GTX and GTR, come in hands up full speed then at six feet up slightly flare till your flying level and this bleeds off the speed and then when the speeds gone full flare and step onto the ground this give an easy landing and looks good. I had trouble landing the Snake XX until I let the trims out 2.5 cm to give the wing a bit more speed and this gave me the energy I needed to get a flare. took me a while to figure this out as there was nothing in the manual. With trims full in there was not enough energy to get a flare.

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On 18/08/2017 at 02:54, GR002 said:

The smaller wings are easier to launch on nil wind or low wind conditions as you can get them over head very easy and fast compared to a large wing which would come up slower with the chance of falling to one side or not coming completely over head. Ok the run is faster but with a bit of brake input its not a problem. On a windy day the smaller wings are easier handled as they do not drag you about as much as a larger wing so its a win win situation. As for landings on the GTX and GTR, come in hands up full speed then at six feet up slightly flare till your flying level and this bleeds off the speed and then when the speeds gone full flare and step onto the ground this give an easy landing and looks good. I had trouble landing the Snake XX until I let the trims out 2.5 cm to give the wing a bit more speed and this gave me the energy I needed to get a flare. took me a while to figure this out as there was nothing in the manual. With trims full in there was not enough energy to get a flare.

Ah yes i see what you mean about a little trimmer out flaring. Up until recently i had been avoiding that technique...often to my detriment. Even on my wing better landings are made with some trimmer out, however most often i need to do that when landing into a headwind to take the tendency of the wing to balloon out of the equation. The universal likes to pop up about 6 feet on its own just before you touchdown when one comes in hands up...then leaves one with that awful drop as it then runs out of airspeed. Letting a bit of trimmer out resolves this issue a lot.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 17/08/2017 at 17:54, GR002 said:

 I let the trims out 2.5 cm to give the wing a bit more speed and this gave me the energy I needed to get a flare. took me a while to figure this out as there was nothing in the manual. With trims full in there was not enough energy to get a flare.

This is also what i have experienced in my PPG career to date - my landings were never as consistent as i would of liked and i went through phases of good landings then go through a patch of not so good..

I have been experimenting with trim settings on landings this year and i think i have finally settled on a winning formula - trims all the way out!

You come in fecking quickly and i`ve seen descent rates at 600`/min or more, but just a moderate amount of brake will see you level off for an extended skim over the ground. When the speed decays as you say pull what`s left of the brakes to come to a halt.

This method takes a bit of working up to but the flare control is extended over much wider window and you have much greater feel/control - don`t pull too much too early thought as you`ll gain height rapidly! It`s actually more forgiving using this method as you can make adjustments if you`re not quite at the right height and speed - the wing is much more responsive to inputs and you have 3 or 4 seconds worth to play with instead of the split-second timing required with trims in.

I always found with trimmers in or near neutral the flare timing was critical, and you only had one chance to get it right. Brakes felt mushy and vague, too.

My landing field is always awkward to fly from and land, the wind direction often bears no relation to what`s aloft and i usually land with zero breeze left at ground level for a landing cushion, and because of it`s topography there`s quite often sinking air at from about 50` as it rolls down from the higher ground late in the evening. It`s essential to have good control in landings like this...

This is probably old news to the experienced pilots here who have been doing these types of landing for years, but the manuals and books i`ve seen always seem to advise trims in for max glide...

 

 

Edited by Hann__
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On 8/31/2017 at 20:40, GR002 said:

I have still got my Pap Motion 26 wing, It was a good wing in its day. I keep it for groundling and for running in new motors 

It's just brilliant, isn't it? I will use it as much as I can and until it's only suitable for ground handling and yet again will be keeping it for the purpose. A bit of a question though - what did you move on to? How do you find it compared to the PAP? Thanks in advance.

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After the Pap Motion I bought a Paramania Action 26. After the Pap motion the Action took me 3 month to Master low wind forward launch but what a step up. This wing was faster a more solid feel and good turning compared to the Pap. The Pap is a Swing Arcus with power risers and is really just a paragliding wing the Action was my first true paramotor wing. If you get a chance try a dedicated paramotor wing and feel the difference.

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1 hour ago, GR002 said:

After the Pap Motion I bought a Paramania Action 26. After the Pap motion the Action took me 3 month to Master low wind forward launch but what a step up. This wing was faster a more solid feel and good turning compared to the Pap. The Pap is a Swing Arcus with power risers and is really just a paragliding wing the Action was my first true paramotor wing. If you get a chance try a dedicated paramotor wing and feel the difference.

Thank you for the detailed response, that's much appreciated. This sounds like an interesting option that I wouldn't have thought of in the first place .. I would have looked at more mainstream wings like the Ozone and Dudek ones. I shall do a little bit more research about it in the near future and most definitely if I get the chance to, I will try a dedicated paramotor wing. Who knows, we might meet up one day and put theory into practice. Once again thanks for your time mate and I look forward to staying in touch.

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