Go Pro Advice

[Neilzy]

Ok so I'm looking to purchase a new camera, I've been using a drift and they getting a hut dates and I've not really used them to there full potential, part in main because I'm lousy at using edit programmes. So what is the best route I'm thinking a Go pro as I'm told they really easy to use and they come with a good edit programme I'm using a mac book if that makes any difference and should I look at the 360 camera or stick to just the norm. Not looking to be the next Spielberg just would like to have some nice video. 

[Lee Jackson]

Eyup Neilzy,

I'm not an aficionado on cameras or vids but I do record my flights for my own consumption (some do make it to YouTube, but I do not aspire to be a Tucker Gott). I figure one day I won't be able to fly any more and then the videos of me bumbling and playing in the sky will be invaluable.

As such, I record my videos on a Sony 4K camera. Its is brilliant, but I understand that the gopro may be marginally better in some areas. The Sony forces a fisheye look when recording in 4K which is a unpalatable to some... I'm cool with it myself. From what I understand if you want to record in 4K then there are only the Sony or Gopro as viable solutions - anyone please correct me if I'm wrong here. 4K footage is absolutely amazing but it is memory hungry. As such you'll either need to edit your vids and delete the source files or buy an external drive that is capable of streaming 4K fast enough for your mac book (like a LaCie drive using firewire... and they ain't cheap - this is what I have and its brilliant plus I can keep all source files now). Filming in 4K eats battery faster too! That's easily solved by plugging in an external battery backup whilst flying - but once again more cost.

If you're happy with 1050 resolution then the field is far, far wider - but, from what I understand, its probably still Gopro as the best solution.

Now from my personal nosing about I think the 360 cameras don't quite seem up to speed yet. Don't get me wrong, they are good - and results can be amazing, but gimbals are really required and God knows what file size you end up with before editing.

So I'd say it really depends what results you are after... but you can't go wrong with a GoPro (note I have never owned one).

On a separate matter I bought a second Sony 4K camera recently for a steal. It was a return to Amazon and literally less than half the purchase price, I now have it and it is 100% perfect.

Blue Hat out.

 

 

[Neilzy]

Cheers Mr Blue Hat I was going to message you lol but that helps does your Sony come in all the plastic waterproof case etc and how do you find editing (be careful here as you may be signing up for teaching me lol) 

[Lee Jackson]

Yes it comes with the various mounts and a case that lets you film in water. I took mine on the family holiday last year and the underwater stuff is really cool. I think the Gopro one is equally well appointed though. Something I forgot to mention above is that 4K filming also requires a jazzy super fast memory card... i.e. more money!

The editing isn't an issue for me - I just use iMovie which you must have with your mac book (I use an iMac). I find iMovie a doddle to use, but then I started with 'movie maker' on a shitty old pc laptop. iMovie is a walk in the park after that. Whilst I'm being so dull I'll mention that I'm tempted to upgrade to finalcut, but that's yet more expense... and I'm not sure if its worth it yet. If anyone can advise me I'd really appreciate it.

I've never tried using the manufacturers editing software so can't comment on what that's like to use. For all I know it could be amazing or a royal pain. I don't spend too long editing either as I'm not after BBC quality output, just a fun succinct vid of the flight. It usually takes me about 30 mins to an hour. Some of the really cool videos out there, beautifully timed to music with alternate angles and voice must have taken a shed load of hours. 

If you do need help I'd be happy to do what I can, but I'm really no expert. I've just found a way that works for me.

There are some pitfalls too... and lessons can be painful. I've lost whole videos before. You need to convert the vid before uploading or it'll take the whole night to upload... that one took me a while to learn!!!

Blue Hat Productions!

[Casper]

The Garmin Virb Ultra 30 is the best camera for flying in my opinion. Lots of accurate sensors, like altitude, g-force sensors and GPS to mention a few. And great 4K quality and everything else the GoPro does and even more. Read this https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/garmin-virb-ultra-30-review.html as this is the best reviewer. 

The Garmin editing software is essential if you want to add G-matrix data to your video, like altitude timelines, tracks, climb rate or speed. G-force for spirals, and 3D-speed for all dimensions you move in. If you want more features like color editing you need an extra software for that. You can direct upload your edited videos to sites like youtube and vimeo.
The altitude sensor is great, shows the same altitude as my flytec, but I have to zero it on the ground I launch from in the edit software.

What I like about the GoPro is the new Karma and the other gimbals you can buy.
There is not a specific gimbal for the Virb Ultra, but some chinese models should work since it have the same size format as gopros, but with buttons on top, I yet have to decide which one to buy.

The Hero 5 Black also have a GPS, and after an update you can also overlay data from it, but still not as good as the Garmin. For more info on that read https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/11/gopro-data-speed-overlays-hero5.html
 

This is the Virb Ultra 30, the pilot also have the older Garmin so don't be confused if the quality is lower on older videos. Still worth watching, some quality stuff.

[aljken]

I've owned a gopro hd hero 2 for about 4 years .

My advice is if you've got a macbook, then imovie, certainly if you're just starting out. It's really really easy to use. You can drag and drop itunes music (or other mp3s in).

Also, I'd advise, keep the video under 2 mins, definitely 3 if you want people to watch it.

I step my recording down to 720. I really can't imagine why you'd ever need 4k, i don't have a tv big enough to show the difference, although you can get a cheap chinese knock-off off amazon for less than 50 quid which records in 4k. If I was buying another today, I'd get a cheap gopro knock-off ideally with a built in gimbal. That way it doesn't matter if you break it. The search terms action camera will bring up loads on amazon for dirt cheap. It's mostly not what you use to film, but content and editing.

[admin (Simon W)]

For optimum 'web based' video, AND to get the best from any of the above cameras, film in 1080 I would say.

4K editing is a pain in the arse (I use a fully upgraded solid state iMac Pro with Final Cut Pro X and a few plug in's) And it's still a pain in the arse! 

Also statistically, only about 5% of people who see the video will see it in 4K anyway. How many of you have a 4K monitor I wonder? You tube auto will never select 4K it has to be a user selected setting. 

1080 is the current TV standard so should be good enough for some you tube videos (which removes masses of detail as you upload it also!) 

I just checked the above video and the auto setting went to 480 which looked great. 

SW

[Steve]

Agree with Simon re system loading with 4K. One big advantage about shooting in 4K and finishing in 1080p is that you have a lot of 'spare' resolution so you can reframe shots in the cut and also apply a degree of post-stabilizing, if needed. 

[Lee Jackson]

Totally agree with all the points above, but remember that sometimes we record videos purely for our own amusement. Yes when they're uploaded to YouTube they are downgraded to 1080, but the original on your computer still works in sexy 4K (if you can actually see it in 4K)

On my iMac the difference between 4K and 1080 is stark... but 1080 is perfectly good. I'm surprised to read about the 4K editing pain. Not trying to be smug, but I don't have any editing issues 4K what so ever. I load all my video onto a LaCie drive which can cope with the streaming. Sometimes I'm loading 1.5 hour clips in 4K and chopping it about without the slightest issue... mind you the iMac isn't that old (about 2 years) and I've upgraded the RAM.

I guess this is one of those different strokes for different folks things. The choice out there is wide as are the potential results...

[Steve]

If you get into multiple streams of 4K footage you will find the limits quickly. A single video source might be okay on a fairly modern iMac with tons of RAM (like you have) plus it also depends on how your software handles it all. Ideally you should have something like a Mac Pro once you want to properly get into this kind of thing with fast bus and solid state RAIDs on Thunderbolt 2 interfaces. Not cheap either.  

[powerlord]

Hi boys - so I'll add my 2c..

first - disclaimer - I've been shooting videos of my flying for 12 years, but just cause I like it doesn't mean summit else is crap.

I have lots of 4k cameras these days, but start with the question:

- who am I shooting videos for ?

if it's you, then do YOU want 4k, etc ?

if it's youtube, then who is your audience ?

These days if you have a modern mac (anything with an i5 or i7) 4k is not a problem to edit in imovie or FCPX. But it does take a LOT of space to store - so decide whether you want the highest quality or not.

Macs (and FCP) are pretty much unique in being able to handle multiple streams of 4k video in real time with no slow down at all due to making tightly coupled use of the intel graphics drivers, to give a counter point to steve above's comments - (but I don't think that matters to you).

If you don't need 4k  shoot in 1080p.

For 1080p -  have a look at the old gopro session - it's 150 squid and nothing touches it for the money imho - it's nice and small, battery lasts for ages.

Stay away from the chinese cameras - they are all crap imho (including xoami who some people seem to think are great).

Assuming you are using a fixed mount (not an electronic gimbal), 

For helmet footage you NEED wide angle - if you don't have it the constant movement of your head will make it unwatchable.

 

wide angle IS fisheye. you don't get one without the other. You can 'defish' it but imho that looks terrible. So decide whether you don't mind the curved horizon business before you buy a fish eye wide angle camera... nearly ALL action cameras are fish eye for that reason - it's required for the first person view. Some allow the camera to crop into the centre of the sensor to give 'narrow' views but you are back to loads of movement.

No need for the crappy gopro software, just import the videos directly into imovie - job done.

If you decide to get into it more, Final Cut pro is what I use - but it's not needed unless yer serious about making fancy vids.

 

[powerlord]

Hi boys - so I'll add my 2c..

first - disclaimer - I've been shooting videos of my flying for 12 years, but just cause I like it doesn't mean summit else is crap.

I have lots of 4k cameras these days, but start with the question:

- who am I shooting videos for ?

if it's you, then do YOU want 4k, etc ?

if it's youtube, then who is your audience ?

These days if you have a modern mac (anything with an i5 or i7) 4k is not a problem to edit in imovie or FCPX. But it does take a LOT of space to store - so decide whether you want the highest quality or not.

Macs (and FCP) are pretty much unique in being able to handle multiple streams of 4k video in real time with no slow down at all due to making tightly coupled use of the intel graphics drivers, to give a counter point to steve above's comments - (but I don't think that matters to you).

If you don't need 4k  shoot in 1080p.

For 1080p -  have a look at the old gopro session - it's 150 squid and nothing touches it for the money imho - it's nice and small, battery lasts for ages.

Stay away from the chinese cameras - they are all crap imho (including xoami who some people seem to think are great).

Assuming you are using a fixed mount (not an electronic gimbal), 

For helmet footage you NEED wide angle - if you don't have it the constant movement of your head will make it unwatchable.

 

wide angle IS fisheye. you don't get one without the other. You can 'defish' it but imho that looks terrible. So decide whether you don't mind the curved horizon business before you buy a fish eye wide angle camera... nearly ALL action cameras are fish eye for that reason - it's required for the first person view. Some allow the camera to crop into the centre of the sensor to give 'narrow' views but you are back to loads of movement.

No need for the crappy gopro software, just import the videos directly into imovie - job done.

If you decide to get into it more, Final Cut pro is what I use - but it's not needed unless yer serious about making fancy vids.

 

[Steve]

Good to hear from you Stu, where you been hiding?  

[powerlord]

Hi steve - acht - after Vince's forum got binned I sort of lost my adopted 'home'...but taking the plunge and joining in with Simon's now.

I've decided to make an effort this year with following things more, and doing some flyins..might even try and arrange a trip to Slovenia tbh.... 

Still been flying though  In fact looking at maybe getting a new paramotor (top of list is the Nitro at the mo - going to see one at Vince's place on friday).

I was trying to find the video showing the multiple 4k stream on a mac yesterday in my youtube history but couldn't find it - but basically it was pretty amazing - editing with 3 or 4 seperate 4k streams on a regular macbook and preview in realtime, etc. I actually edit in 4k on my macbook air fine - it was a bit jittery until I upgaded to El Cap, and then its smooth as silk.. it's obviously doing some sort of jiggery pokery - but the video showed a comparison with the same edits being tried on the same hardware in Premier, and it was a slideshow.

Video wise, my latest purchases have been a DJI Osmo 4k, and an Insta360. I've tried the Osmo in flight (not good -better results with my gimbal and gopro4). I've still to try the insta360 in flight but have modified a gimbal to carry it, so should be able to shoot ultra smooth 360 footage on my next flight

stu

[Steve]

The Nitro EC looks really interesting, keep us all posted on that if you do go ahead.  A bit lighter than your old Bailey! 

Coincidentally, I was talking to my optician mid-test yesterday about the trip to Slovenia. I think Brett said a while ago he was thinking about doing another one. It would be awesome to see Igor trike launching again ... 

I was thinking in terms of streaming the footage in, as opposed to putting low res through the video card in my reply. I haven't looked at the specs but I suspect there'll be a bit of a difference between streaming in the footage from a few Reds than a few GoPros  .  

Do you still use the famous Stublizer or are you onto something new? 

[powerlord]

ah well yeh if yer talking about uncompressed 4k footage thats a different kettle of fish I'm sure.

I was just stunned to be able to edit decent 4k footage (from gopro, DJI osmo, DJI mavic, etc) on a wee macbook air tbh.

Still using tatty old stubilizer prototype (with the pounds coins still glued on for weight balance from Slovenia). Never found anything better - though there are a bunch out now, they all have far too quick yaw even on lowest settings imho for helmet mounted use.

Slovenia wise, maybe I'll give Brett a bell. 

I was thinking I could take the motorhome, and probably fit 3 motors and their meat suits in. Which would save on accomodation. But would still need some help from Brett for places to take off (hopefully better than his last ones). But it's not ideal either not having a chase car, etc like we had last time.

But then again, if some kind, selfless individual wanted to take thier big transit van full of motors and let the rest of us fly over again, then I wouldn't say no 

 

[powerlord]

what one did u get ?

I'm looking at the leccy clutch job. Vince ain't got one in stock, but I'm going to pay him a visit friday and have a good nosey around what he has got.

My main concerns are around assembly/disassembly...

 

basically the 'garage' at the back of the motorhome is a limited size. My old top80 2 part cage was great -you just slipped top part of cage in, and the whole thing slipped into sideways into the garage.

no removing props, etc, etc.

The bailey - more hassle - since the arms don't fold down flat, it wouldn't go in sideways - so cage had to be taken off, prop off and then pushed in backwards.

this means cage has to be assembled every time and the prop put on and off.

BUT, I can keep cage assembled in 2 halfs, and the prop is a single bolt, so it's not so bad.

IF I had to disassemble the air conception every time it would be much more of a pain in the ar4e... cage far more faffing about to assemble, plus 6 bolts for prop everytime . urg - my first paramotor back in 2006 was a castellucio with a similar cage (the 4 bits and the nasty netting and springs - I bloody hated faffing about with it).

So what I need to try out is:

1. can it fit sideways like the old pap.

2. if not and arms are stopping it, is removing the arms everytime maybe still less hassle than fanning about with cage/prop (unfortunately unlike the bailey arms there's perhaps a lack of though went into the design there, and they are not easy to remove - a bailey type R-clip type connector could have made these far easier to remove/replace (must be others who would benefit also from this?... on that subject - assembling videos wise it looks like its a metal to metal rotational join at the arm too ?(it talks about leaving a small amount of gap so it can move freely)... that's also a bit of a poor design - any metal to metal friction should be avoided - a simple nylon washer here would have solved both the gap problem, and the metal friction surely ?

3. if I get it in sideways, can I have cage sort of assembled, but just 'in half' ? i.e. top half pulled off the hoop and laid down across the front or summit.

If all that fails, then the option is that when I'm away in the van not just for the day - I assemble it once, and then store it on the bike rack at the back - this fits 4 bikes, so 80kg+ is fine (I can swing on it).. so might make most sense to do it that way if the alternative is disassemble it completely - I reckon an ali plate bolted onto bike wheel holders, and some quick release locks onto the frame bottom, plus using one of the bike frame locks to keep it in place, etc. (and a tarp over it for waterproofing)

I think that's gonna be the main things I need to look at with Vince tbh. 

From what I've read - it's getting a pretty much unequaled positive reception around the world otherwise. 

I might take some piccies on friday on fitment incase it helps anyone else with similar transport/storage concerns.

 

[admin (Simon W)]

It's all gone a little 'off topic' gents  

I tried to be clever and 'split' the thread and create a new topic... 

All it did was move neilzy's post but not the ones below it. 

SW

[Steve]

Uh, sorry Si, got carried away - haven't seen each other for a few years. 

[admin (Simon W)]

Not a proper moan mate of course 'proper moans come by PM lol'  Just sayin.... 

SW