aljken Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hi, I'm thinking of getting a PPG and am currently a free flight paraglider. I weight 70kg (naked weight). Thus I'm estimating I'll be 100-105kg with reserve, engine, fuel, etc. Correct me if this is wrong. If I'm flying a 26 or 27m wing what sort of power will I need for this? Or more specifically would I be more suited to a Polini 100, 200, or Moster 185? Are there problems with having too much power??? I've also got a 17m wing (Zion) which I'd like to eventually fly with the motor. Would this be more suited to a more powerful engine? Also does more power mean more speed, or is that more to do with wing weighting? Any advice is greatfully appreciated, Cheers, Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 The more power the better as it can get you out of more situations if you get your self in to them, this is of course as long as you know how to use it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Hi I am 75kg all up 113-115kg with a Bailey V5. You dont add fuel to the all up weight only for getting the correct size reserve then you add up everything. I fly with a 24m Speedster ave 58-60kph. The Bailey has around 60kg of thrust and this is about as small a wing i would like to fly with the bailey, I can use full bar and still Maintain height. I would like to use the 21m Slalom to see how this goes!!! If you want to get into low level slalom flying you might want to think about more power than 60kg but this depends on how small you want to go with your wing... I love the 24m but can scare the Sh1t out of me some times... Dont forgot you will be loading your PG wing up with an extra 50% of your body weight. This will turn an active wing into a very active wing and will make your landings super fast. This might be too Much for your early PPG days You should also know coming from PG that more power will not mean more Speed.. the higher the wing loading the more speed More power higher climb rate up to a point... If you have to much power you could stall out the wing also having to much power could cause you to torque to much and get a riser twist... Having excess power is good if you know how to use it... Best thing to do is get a demo on as many of your engine choices you can and get as much advice as you can. Good luck with the training and welcome to the good side!!! Regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 At 70kg I would put you on the Thor100 out of your choice. At your weight you have a great choice of motors. As already mentioned by Mark. The Bailey V5 will give the same thrust as thor100. Top80 would see you ok. R-130 an engine we fit in the AirConception is another alternative. Bailey V5 15.8kg and 60kg thrust. 4 stroke. Excellent economy Polini Thor 100. 14.6kg 60kg thrust. 2 stroke all round popular choice. H-130. 11.3kg 60kg thrust. 2 Stroke. Light weight power. Top 80. 11.1kg 50kg thrust. 2 stroke. been around a long time. Plus a few others including pap/he 125 etc. It's fair to say, all these engine will start and run well for years. It's also fair to say that any of these engine can have some issue in its life in some form. Next you would have to decide on frame. Alloy, stainless, titanium, carbon. All with pros and cons. Frame styles with pros and cons. Sectional, multipart etc. Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I am 79KG and fly a venom with the polini thor 110, its has more than enough thrust to get me, the motor, wing, reserve ect off the ground and a good climb rate under a Nuc 31. any thor 110 motor should be more than adequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Not sure about a V5, top 80 or thor 100 with a 19m wing??? But my guess is you will not be flying this wing for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljken Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated. Seems like the consensus is that 200 probably too much power. 100ish more sensible for when I'm just starting. If Polini released a 130 that would be just perfect.... Cheers, A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 A polini 130. Lol. What ever next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Vince ...... sssssshhhhh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated. Seems like the consensus is that 200 probably too much power. 100ish more sensible for when I'm just starting. If Polini released a 130 that would be just perfect.... Cheers, A. You could always get the 200 and leave enough slack on the throttle cable or put a max stop on it so that you only get enough power to take off safely. When you have a bit more experience you just take up the slack and then you have full power. You would then save on having to upgrade at a later date. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik_Y Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I'm 65kg naked and have a Radne at almost 14hp with 50kg thrust at best(weaker then the top80) and I fly an 18sqm ITV Awak with no problem. I would say the Polini 100 would be enough even for the 17sqm as it got 20hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notch Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Or the new Polini 130 that has just been released Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Morgy wrote You should also know coming from PG that more power will not mean more Speed.. the higher the wing loading the more speed More power higher climb rate up to a point... If you have to much power you could stall out the wing also having to much power could cause you to torque to much and get a riser twist... I say Riser twist I would agree with. also the climb rate will be stratospheric ....but to stall out the wing because of too much power Ive got my doubts I dont think a paramotor wing will stall under power only I would have thought that with all the paramotor crashing and accident videos on youtube, vimeo, ect ect somebody somewhere would have captured this on film by now , Ive seen a paramotor trike with a large engine fly off on its own under full power only to go through a series of huge Nods I stand to be corrected or proven wrong ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I light inexperienced pilot on a high power machine on a Beginner/intermediate wing IMO could stall out the wing especially on slow or take of trim when taking off or doing high power climb's This would have to be fairly extrem situation but could happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybound Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Wings can defiantly be power stalled! The biggest problem is that pilots don't appreciate how close they are to the stall!! There's plenty of video fodder out there where the slightest of brake input on climbout that ended in tears. It's not a stupid question, but highlights the problem that pilots are not being taught this in their principles of flight lesions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I agree that a wing can be stalled with power, and maybe a 'tiny' bit of brake. Too much power during take off while the wing has not reached it's flying speed is a great way to fall from the sky. As Clive says there are quite a few stalls on take off on the tube. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganers Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Hi Simon. I understand why the wing would stall under too much power, as I understand it the pilot ends up way in front of the wing and the wing trades forward speed for vertical climb to the point it runs out of forward speed and drops. But if the wing hasn't reached flying speed would you have left the ground? Have I got hold of what you said the wrong way? Cheers lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Hi Lee, Taking off with lots of brake input and loads of power will get you off the ground in no time, but this puts you very close to the stall... (or an actual stall) so not full flying speed. Turning while climbing out hard will also cause the inner tip to stall. (normally torque steer when using loads of power and loads of brake will be enough to start the unwanted turn.) At the other end of the spectrum, you can take off with no brake input if you continue to build up your speed gradually with minimal power until the wing has reached its flying speed... You have to find a place that you are happy, but keep it as close to the fast end as possible, accept that fact that you have to run, build up your speed over time and don't be in a rush to leave the ground. This does not read quite as well as I would like it to.... but I think it does the job. If anyone can word it in a nice simple way please do feel free. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I still maintain a paramotor wing will not stall with power alone....any Brake input whatsoever will stall the wing but if you leave the brakes alone it wont. it will just keep Nodding any video evidence out there that it will stall on power alone let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Except that's not a 'wing' Its a Parachute. This wing did not have the required SPEED TO FLY [youtubevideo] [/youtubevideo]SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Exept that You can see clearly the trailing edge is being pulled down ! this will obviously stall the wing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 All, I know it can be done, because I have come very close to it in the past myself a couple of times (in the Pre-Reflex days granted) but power has also increased with wing speeds. Its slightly worrying that you believe its not possible. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Let me worry about it... Ive said what I know will happen and Ive said my "piece" on the subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Fair doos. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganers Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Cheers Simon it makes sense with what I've been taught. I go go full power with hands up and run till I'm picked up. Once well away I tend to back off the throttle for a gentle climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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