poz Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Pierre from PAP has offered to make for me a PAP PPG using a Bailey V5. Just need to find €7k (£5.5k) Mucho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzo200500 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Go on, go on, you know you want to.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Variety is the spice of life! (just dont tell my wife!) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Whats wrong with the kit you have now? lol you know you want it....... do you really need the "why"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dede2008 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hey, I'm just baffled at PRM prices over there? 7k Eu is the price for an (expensive) tandem trike I was comparing the prices for a miniplane a while ago and Ireland's miniplane importer was charging 2800 Eu for one,cheaper than buying it straight from manufacturer here (3500 Eu) so I am even more baffled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poz Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 Whats wrong with the kit you have now? lol you know you want it....... do you really need the "why"? Don't ask me to explain it, but I just have a growing insecurity about trusting my life to a 2 stroke. Not sure why, because I've done well over 100hrs on my PAP PA125 with no problems. What I do know is that I feel uncomfortable and believe I'd feel happier with a 4 stroke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dede2008 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Whats wrong with the kit you have now? lol you know you want it....... do you really need the "why"? Don't ask me to explain it, but I just have a growing insecurity about trusting my life to a 2 stroke. Not sure why, because I've done well over 100hrs on my PAP PA125 with no problems. What I do know is that I feel uncomfortable and believe I'd feel happier with a 4 stroke Mmm if you are trusting your life to a motor that means you are doing something wrong (i.e. low flying on unlandable places) and that will not change after you own a 4 stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Good point. Don't fly where if the engine stops you would be in trouble. Dan - nice to see your hours climbing, you're catching me up Cheers, Alan, now 152hrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I agree motor should not be what your trusting. You have your height that will glide you to your first choice of landing spots and you second if needed. You should always have at least one landing option at all times. 4 banger has more moving parts and thus maybe more points of failure. But the motor type is not the point the motor is never to be relied on in my eye's unless your dragging your feet on the ground or over the water lol. Even when I choose to drag my feet in water I wait until low tide to lower my risk. I find swimming with a motor on my back a part of the sport i wish to limit my exposure too. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Good point. Don't fly where if the engine stops you would be in trouble.Dan - nice to see your hours climbing, you're catching me up Cheers, Alan, now 152hrs Take the beer after flight time out of that calculation! That puts you down to 80 or so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 You cheeky what-not Beer time is on top of that total Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Pierre from PAP has offered to make for me a PAP PPG using a Bailey V5. Just need to find €7k (£5.5k) Mucho! What's the delivery time? 2-3 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Hey,I'm just baffled at PRM prices over there? 7k Eu is the price for an (expensive) tandem trike I was comparing the prices for a miniplane a while ago and Ireland's miniplane importer was charging 2800 Eu for one,cheaper than buying it straight from manufacturer here (3500 Eu) so I am even more baffled I too am baffled how they price these things, when i was looking for a miniplane I was quoted £3500 from a guy in ireland and £5700 from a well known instructer based in france. yes you read that correctly £5700 for a minplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poz Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 I agree motor should not be what your trusting. You have your height that will glide you to your first choice of landing spots and you second if needed. You should always have at least one landing option at all times. 4 banger has more moving parts and thus maybe more points of failure. But the motor type is not the point the motor is never to be relied on in my eye's unless your dragging your feet on the ground or over the water lol. Even when I choose to drag my feet in water I wait until low tide to lower my risk. I find swimming with a motor on my back a part of the sport i wish to limit my exposure too. T This is not a black or white situation. I am looking at the the shades of grey, and most people would probably agree that a 4 stroke is more reliable than a 2 stroke. Everything that has been preached in the last few posts has been said a million times before. A bit boring really, but if it makes you feel better to preach it, fair enough. How many pilots out there, hand on heart, can say that they have never been in a situation (not even for 10 seconds) that, if their engine quit suddenly during that brief period, they wouldn't be in difficulty. Well, it's that 10 seconds that I am talking about. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Did not mean to come across as preaching that was not my intent. If I read your email right I can tell you I would be in trouble if my motor cut out a ton of times. I've been trying to fly a little better in this respect. I look back at all the times, I've been crossed rivers with to little height to return or make it to the other side for that matter. In honesty I still don't think I would run to a 4 stroke right now and feel safer. They are great (morgy not diss`n the V5) don't get me wrong. But as all things go in the mechanical world they need to prove themselves over time. They are having their teething pains just like any other new product. I don't know is one safer then the other right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dede2008 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Hi, personally I don't see the point right now in 4 stroke engine for a foot launched paramotor. The reliability is not something, as said, you should trust your life with. If it fails, you just glide away unlike any other flying machine, but I have yet to experience a reliability problem with my miniplane after 250+ hours. I would love to see a 4 stroke motor blowing my mind, but they are not there just yet. Comparing a bailey v5 with miniplane, its 7-8 kgs heavier, still burns more fuel despite being 4 stroke and it only has 5 kgs more thrust (60 kgs vs 55 kgs). What I would really like to see is a 4 stroke paramotor with 70+ kgs of thrust that weights 20 kg and burns less than 2LPH. Now that would change the way we look at paramotors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Poz I was typing that kicking my own ass.... hence maybe a bit of run on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poz Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Did not mean to come across as preaching that was not my intent. If I read your email right I can tell you I would be in trouble if my motor cut out a ton of times. I've been trying to fly a little better in this respect. I look back at all the times, I've been crossed rivers with to little height to return or make it to the other side for that matter. In honesty I still don't think I would run to a 4 stroke right now and feel safer. They are great (morgy not diss`n the V5) don't get me wrong. But as all things go in the mechanical world they need to prove themselves over time. They are having their teething pains just like any other new product. I don't know is one safer then the other right now? Sorry for sounding grumpy (kids and summer holidays ) I think because I have had 4 stroke Honda motorbikes for over 30 years and can honestly say that I have never had an 'engine out', wrongly, it makes me feel that I could rely (more) on a 4 stroke PPG. When in reality my lack of 'engine outs' is probably more attributable to the brand of engine and the amount of money they have to spend on development. I think you are exactly right in what you say about unproven products. I guess time will tell. The problem is, is that by the time they have proved themselves, electric flight will be where 4 strokes are now and we'll be having the same discussion....and there will be another power source on the horizon (probably water power) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 That's another great point. Current battery capacity is at its limits and is really starting to drive alternatives to NiMh,Nicd,Li-ion etc.... I was looking for some batteries just the other day and ran into these.... It really made me think its not to far off to be flying on electric http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/index.htm http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/portable ... inipak.htm Not to worry kids will do that to you lol cheers, T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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