Guest Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 All, I have an idea, to improve the safety of our sport and make it simpler for people to distribute safety information to ALL uk Paramotor pilots. I have a server, with loads of space on it. My idea is: A central database of pilots e-mail addresses / contact details. 100% no spam / advertising of any sort. The ONLY e-mail that you will get from it would be safety notices from either the BHPA, AAIB, PMC, or manufacturer. As it stands there is no central database to distribute this information. It would of course be free to join. All manufactures / organisations will be able to join and post safety notices (un-moderated) The reason, One e-mail hits all pilots. This would of course require the support of all, including the BHPA's members, in fact everyone would need to support this idea. There need be no politics involved, just a nice simple e-mail list so that we can all be kept totally up to date from one place. I will build, upload and host this for in my own time and for free. Vote at the top. No votes please explain your reasons so that we can look into solutions. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommcb6016 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Great idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 That does seem like a good idea Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzo200500 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Sounds good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notch Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Perhaps make it available worldwide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 In principle a central database is a good idea - you already have a lot of peoples contact details on this forum so if they choose to receive emails, why not ? Maybe register their equipment so notices are targeted accordingly ? Some thoughts though - in no particular order ..... 1- The BHPA already has an established system for incident reporting and issuing safety notices. My membership fees support this but I am all for safety information being freely distributed to anyone. Does the PMC have the necessary funding, skills and facility to liaise with all manufacturers etc to produce safety notices or are you just going to distribute those from others ? 2- Will you include the useful reports already produced by DHV, FFVL, USHPA and other organisations worldwide ? Will you have time to do this with your teaching, video and other pursuits ? 3- Won't this further encourage companies (like Paramania) who fail to notify their customers of problems directly ? If you are going to do the 'dirty work' for them, have you considered the legal liability of issuing safety notices if they aren't received ? All brands would need to be fully involved. 4- You say "no politics involved" but that is unavoidable by human nature. You are a dealer for certain brands, and often express anti BHPA sentiments (or anti "tree hugger" pilots) There is clear rivalry, since any organisation exists on the strength of it's members and there would need to be cooperation to serve all PPG pilots (from BHPA, PMC, BMAA etc.) Anyway, just thoughts - nothing negative. When it comes to safety I support any initiative, but you already know that I would prefer to see one organisation representing the interests of all paramotorists in the UK. IMO the BHPA is better placed to organise this sort of thing, even though it is failing to meet the needs of all PPG pilots at the moment. The effort, energy & enthusiasm you put into paramotoring could go a long way to improve that if there was mutual co-operation - but I know that won't be happening any time soon ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 BHPA bulletins only get to a minority of pilots (not a dig as I am a BHPA fully paid member for the last 8 years or more) A good post except for the constant dig at Paramania. I know that as far as safety goes there is/would be no politics involved. AS far as safety goes the more ways it can be delivered to the people it effects the better Competition keeps every one on there toes, look back over the last few years (since the PMC have been around) and see how much more proactive the BHPA have been as far as paramotors are concerned. Anyway thats my little bit said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommcb6016 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 As I have alredy said I think this is a good idea. The mallion issue should have been dealt with by the aaib as it was classified as a "serious incident" Why aren't they involved ? Is it because we are deregulated? I am not a bhpa member so their safety notices are effectively useless to me, unless I see them on a forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilzy Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 As a simple answer is all that is needed wether or not others do a simlar thing yes great idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I am not a bhpa member so their safety notices are effectively useless to me, unless I see them on a forum. Well they are open for all to see: http://www.bhpa.co.uk/members/safety/notices/index.php as are the DHV: http://www.dhv.de/typo/Safety_Notes.3939.0.html, FFVL, USHPA etc. It would be nice though to have something which may affect you emailed directly, instead of having to search or stumble across it on a forum. The problem with forums is the facts can sometimes be obscured by personal bias - for instance the maillon issue was initially (falsely) blamed on pilot error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 In principle a central database is a good idea - you already have a lot of peoples contact details on this forum so if they choose to receive emails, why not ? Maybe register their equipment so notices are targeted accordingly ? Some thoughts though - in no particular order .....1- The BHPA already has an established system for incident reporting and issuing safety notices. My membership fees support this but I am all for safety information being freely distributed to anyone. Does the PMC have the necessary funding, skills and facility to liaise with all manufacturers etc to produce safety notices or are you just going to distribute those from others ? I dont want to change the current reporting system at all, were talking about a central distribution point, nothing to do with the PMC and ir BHPA as such 2- Will you include the useful reports already produced by DHV, FFVL, USHPA and other organisations worldwide ? Will you have time to do this with your teaching, video and other pursuits ? Thanks for your concerns. My time management is actually very good, and the intended site would take a matter of days to build. Not sure about historic lists (this is a distribution system) 3- Won't this further encourage companies who fail to notify their customers of problems directly ? If you are going to do the 'dirty work' for them, have you considered the legal liability of issuing safety notices if they aren't received ? All brands would need to be fully involved. Again, its a means of distribution for all manufactures to use to report directly. 4- You say "no politics involved" but that is unavoidable by human nature. You are a dealer for certain brands, and often express anti BHPA sentiments (or anti "tree hugger" pilots) There is clear rivalry, since any organisation exists on the strength of it's members and there would need to be cooperation to serve all PPG pilots (from BHPA, PMC, BMAA etc.) There will be no politics because there will be no forum. Anyway, just thoughts - nothing negative. When it comes to safety I support any initiative, but you already know that I would prefer to see one organisation representing the interests of all paramotorists in the UK. IMO the BHPA is better placed to organise this sort of thing, even though it is failing to meet the needs of all PPG pilots at the moment. The effort, energy & enthusiasm you put into paramotoring could go a long way to improve that if there was mutual co- operation - but I know that won't be happening any time soon ..... I actually think that you are wrong about this. I believe that I am far better placed to get it live and running with my internet know how and good contacts and friends in the IT industry. I would of course need the help of the BHPA and EVERYONE else to support it though. This is a time to throw gloves down, and make a real change for the good of our safety and sport. Its a simple and effective solution to a PROBLEM that currently exists. It is clear that the support is on this forum for sure, where it will all go wrong is if people play the I am not in that camp game which although it pains me to say it, is what will most likely happen. Maybe those of you on other forums could link to this thread and get a feel for the support or not from the replies? That would be very useful at this stage. I would ask that you dont pre pitch the idea... just a simple link so that we are all reading the same thing. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I am not a bhpa member so their safety notices are effectively useless to me, unless I see them on a forum. Well they are open for all to see: http://www.bhpa.co.uk/members/safety/notices/index.php as are the DHV: http://www.dhv.de/typo/Safety_Notes.3939.0.html, FFVL, USHPA etc. It would be nice though to have something which may affect you emailed directly, instead of having to search or stumble across it on a forum. The problem with forums is the facts can sometimes be obscured by personal bias - for instance the maillon issue was initially (falsely) blamed on pilot error. His point is clearly that he is not (notified) of the report. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Aquatix: your other post was removed because it was irrelevant to to this thread. You have made your point thank you. We have all read your thoughts on the other threads as well. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Simon: Your forum so your rules, no problem. I fully support any safety initiative, providing issues with ANY product can be openly discussed - whether it affects sales or not. The other issues I mentioned weren't with that brand - and include the Kobra paramotor I fly (so no bias at all). I think it would be beneficial to let other other owners know about such matters even if they have not caused an 'incident'. Will your proposed safety list include reports from owners or just 'official' reports issued by governing associations ? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Thinking back, I remember getting an email from my local hang gliding and paragliding club (Devon and Somerset Condors) They always email the BHPA Club bulletins which, in turn, include the latest safety messages. And the issue of the cheap mallions was in there just a few days after the fault was discovered. I know I've said this before but joining your local club, even if they are all tree huggers and not motor orientated, is really a good idea as they can, help you to stay on track with lectures, to help pass exams, and usefull local knowledge, like where their favourite hills are. The value of the parachute repack alone covers the annual fee at our club. Well worth it and good for rellations between motor and non motor flyers. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Dave, while I totally agree with you that people should join in a club environment.... You have just made my point. EVERYONE should have had that message. Not by being a member of any club, but by being a pilot. The only way this can happen is a central list combining all of the clubs no matter what the association / affiliation. As an aside: Early conversations with some of the manufacturers has gone very well indeed and seems to be welcomed. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Great idea! I can't really see a downside as if it only prevents one accident then it's been a priceless excercise. As just a means to forward safety warnings like those from the BHPA into pilots inboxes it would be useful, but with additional input from manufacturers, schools and pilots it would be even more powerful. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukebanks1 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Any initiative that could prevent an accident gets my full support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilzy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Simon are you planning to do this or has the low reaction ended it before it started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I have had 0 feedback from outside of this forum (other than a few manufacturers that I contacted supporting the idea) It seems as though the support is just not there from the pilots. If you build it, they will come? not sure in this case. I have not binned the idea yet though I am going to ask Paramotor Mag to run a piece in the idea. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Until such time as a database / email list is created, there is a good collection of safety articles here which people might find useful (not the latest, but particularly good for older machines or anyone buying a used paramotor / wing / harness). http://www.paramotoring.ie/SAFETY.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Personally i dont have the time or really can't be arsed to look through safety article etc. BUT if an email system was up and running that was tailored to my wing and motor manufacturer the i would welcome the idea/system. I think its a great idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilzy Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Personally i dont have the time or really can't be arsed to look through safety article etc. BUT if an email system was up and running that was tailored to my wing and motor manufacturer the i would welcome the idea/system. I think its a great idea What a spot on comment how many of us are the same I never look at stuff I really should be but an email that cuts out all the crap would be so much better it is a great idea and Simon you should just do it, Winters coming ya need something to do on the cold blustery day's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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