outkast Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I was at the lemmings fly in last weekend and a guy there had one of the new bulldog motors, I have to say it looked a real nice peice of kit, very well thought out with some very clever details, nicely put together too. I would recomend anyone looking for a new motor to consider one of these machines, I personally dont like the under arm J bars but thats just me, maybe they will produce a low arm weight shift model later. PS: I have no connection with anyone involved in the bulldog Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivefreeman Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 That looks very nice, like to have a little dabble on one. !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 From what I gather they have no intention of making a low hang point machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 From what I gather they have no intention of making a low hang point machine. Thats a shame Pete as the rest of it ticks all the boxs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Yes thats was the only draw back for me, other than that a very nice machine and as they say British is best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybound Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 The thing is until you've flown this type of harness system then then comments are preconceived hear say from others. The machine in the picture is equipped with a comp fuel system fitted by the owner who had only ever owned Pap machines until he tried the Bulldog harness and found he got on better with it. We have quite a few new owners of the Bulldog that where previously low hangy pilots. There has always been an idea to have an active system but not in the conventional sense. Orders for the Spirit has not allowed us to take the initial idea any further than the test machine we made a few years ago. If you have a look on our website there are a plenty of places to get a demo. Clive www.bulldogparamotors.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 The thing is until you've flown this type of harness system then then comments are preconceived hear say from others. The machine in the picture is equipped with a comp fuel system fitted by the owner who had only ever owned Pap machines until he tried the Bulldog harness and found he got on better with it. We have quite a few new owners of the Bulldog that where previously low hangy pilots. There has always been an idea to have an active system but not in the conventional sense. Orders for the Spirit has not allowed us to take the initial idea any further than the test machine we made a few years ago. If you have a look on our website there are a plenty of places to get a demo. Clive http://www.bulldogparamotors.co.uk Hi Clive, I am not knocking it, but hang point position is personal preferance and at this moment in time I am used to Pap type low hang points, I would be interested in flying the bulldog to see how they compare to my preferance, as I said the rest ticks all the boxs for me. Very well done and I hope its a great success, the quality not only of the biuld but of the thinking behind it speaks for itself. Hopefully someone (Steve haze ) will bring one to the fly in at barling next month all the best, Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybound Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hi Dave I didn't want it to sound like I was knocking you for knocking it, if you know what I mean. I am pleased you liked what you've seen so far, but like I said its not like a normal high hang point as it remains active to weight shift and dials out most of the torque but is more stable in the rougher conditions. its more comfortable and allows for a better flare for landing. Anyway thanks for posting the pictures and the comments. Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbirdyxx Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Dave I came from free flying into paramotoring and learnt on a high hang point machine, then i moved on to the Pap Ros 125 lower hang points because a lot of other PPG Pilots (ex free flyers) said it was the way to go. As my flying progressed and many fantastic hours flying the ROS, I had the chance to demo a machine but it was back on high hang points, to my surprise it was a remarkably easy transition,the groundhandling wasnt a problem,but what I did notice was that it seemed much more stable in rougher conditions,which stretched my comfort zone and I was now flying in more challenging air. Since that demo flight I havn't looked back,I have owned/own 3 higher hang point machines since the ROS. I have flown the BULLDOG like you say it ticks most of the boxes but You,like many others just have to get your head around the hang point issue. The BULLDOG is definately worth a demo flight if you get the chance. Its probably going to be my next investment BUT I know I will just have to join the queue. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 "more stable in rougher conditions" always seems to be quoted as the advantage of high hangpoints, which I believe is somewhat misleading as it only refers to the feel of the harness - not the actual stability of the wing itself which is always going to move about in rough or active air. Wing stability is much more important. Whilst it may be more comforting for a beginner, I personally don't like to feel 'detached' or insulated from what the wing (and air) is doing. Perhaps it comes from active free flying first, but I want the feedback to let me know what is happening. (note 'feedback' as opposed to 'rough ride') Having tried high, medium & low, fixed & active systems I find the Kobra low active hang points perfect for me. In rough air you can see (and feel) the pivot arms moving up and down with the wing, although the ride itself feels comfortable & stable (not pitching about as with a low fixed hang point). With the trend for flying reflex wings 'hands off', a high hang point harness could give a false sense of security leading people to fly in rougher conditions that could get them into trouble. Good feedback is an important early warning system that helps prevent this. No criticism intended of any person or machine. Pros & cons of different hang points have all been discussed before and it is great to have such a choice, with designs being constantly improved. I guess its like car suspension - a softly sprung executive car is more relaxing on the motorway, but on a twisting country road I prefer a sports car that transmits every bit of feedback from the road and tyres ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybound Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Alan I am not talking about stability of the wing as this clearly dependent on the wing. There is nothing misleading about a more stable platform. I fully understand the need to be able to react in free flight mode when either thermaling or flying in geographically unstable air but we are a different discipline altogether and are becoming worlds apart other than we look similar to the onlooker. The feel of the wing is still there and the only thing is dampened is the ability of the wing to weight shift the pilot when not needed. This does not mask dangers any more than the knowledge of when to fly or not, it just gives the pilot a more stable platform to enjoy the more modern wing of A to B flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Clive, my comment wasn't directed at you or other experienced pilots who understand the difference, but I've seen similar threads and it can be misleading or confusing to beginners who might assume that high hang points somehow provide more stability or safety in rougher conditions. Of course we agree this depends on the wing and pilot ability. Even with planning and careful study of the weather I've found it can easily change mid flight, or you can encounter wave or rotor near hills, so having good early feedback allows prompt action to be taken. In free flight mode the feel of the wing is transmitted mainly through the brakes, which is lost when motoring hands off. Couple this with a 'stable' high hang point harness which further dampens the transmission of wing movement and clearly even more 'feel' is lost. Thats not suggesting a high hangpoint machine doesn't feel more comfortable and stable for "A to B flying" if that is your preference, but personally I like to feel more involved in the flying, with more feedback and ample comfort for long flights. Anyway it is good to have enough choices to suit everyone's preference, even if there are pro's & con's to each. PS - I've still not had a reply from you regarding my email about rogue Dudek dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybound Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Alan I am not trying to make this a battle of wills nor am I suggesting that it's safer to fly high point. The argument I make is that high hang point is more stable from the fact that there is great mass under the risers making it less serceptable to pitching and lateral unstability. This is my opinion but based on many years flying, testing and training from observation and personaly flying as many machines as possible including Kobra which I used to import. Is you opinion based on what you are used to or have owned and flown many high hang point machines. What I do find confusing for new pilots or even existing pilots with little experience of other equipment is the kind of North South devide mentality on preferred kit. Typically the kit someone ends up with is more to do with chance than anything else with regards to pier pressure or budget restraints. Ps secondhand wing no jurisdiction give me a call if you want to discus further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Not sure why you consider this a battle of wills since I don't claim either system is better or safer. To claim "high hang point is more stable" is wrong (IMO) when rather it is the harness that feels more stable. As already stated my opinions and preferences are based on what I have owned and flown (mostly low hang point), and heavily influenced from free flying. I'm sure they would be different if I had only ever paramotored on a high hang point machine. No North South divide mentality here - I believe both types have their place and following. As for the other matter, it was only a query as to whether 'X' was an authorised dealer, since they were not listed on your or Dudek's site. If dealerships are appointed directly from Dudek then I will contact them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Come to think of it.... Nor am I listed? Unless I am the Mr X ? or do you actually mean Mr X? Guys I think its a fair time to let this one lay now Thanks for keeping it nice and peaceful. Please feel free to start a High V Low V Active V ???? thread after all, thats not a Bulldog specific thing...(unlike this thread) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1975 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I'll just throw in my opinion for what it's worth... Having had my first flights today (on the Bulldog) & clearly having had no experience of any other type of motor/hangpoint etc please feel free to take this with as much salt as you wish. I felt secure on the Bulldog & could feel what was going on in the air around me but not to the point where I had any brown trouser moments. The seat was VERY easy to get into & out of, which is a massive plus for someone at my level. The cage is also very strong (don't ask!) & I would feel much more comfortable flying the Bulldog than a lot of other units I have seen, purely because I think it will take the knocks that a beginner will at some point subject it to. Of all the motors I have tried on (& I have actually tried a few) I felt that the Bulldog felt more comfortable than most on my back - don't know why but maybe that's just me? All in all it seems to be built with people of my skill level in mind, although having said that I get the impression that much more experienced pilots also seem to like it. It does appear to be well thought through with lots of nice details - even someone like me can see the quality of the build etc The fact that it is British puts it well into the top of my list of motors to buy because I am patriotic & like to buy British & if I break it I would like to think it could be fixed reasonably quickly & easily. There are things I don't like so much. The arms could possibly be tweaked to be a bit more to make it easier to get in/out & make it more user friendly to take photo's etc. I'm sure someone much more experienced will tell me I'm talking rubbish but I just thought I would add my comments for what they're worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I, for one, enjoyed your review Phil. Now then.........anyone like to buy my Fxxt Txp ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 £20. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Hey guys, My Bulldog will be at the Essex fly-in, in June. In the meantime if anyone wants to come and have a look and test it out, they are more than welcome to come over when it's flyable and give it a go. I've come from flying low hang points and have to say that I was surprised by how much feeling I did have from the Bulldog. Having now tried semi-high hangpoints I can only really say don't knock it until you've tried it. All the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 £20. SW I will see your £20 and raise you a one penny chew, and youl be gratefull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 £20. SW I will see your £20 and raise you a one penny chew, and youl be gratefull Dave save your sweets its not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon101 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I'm looking forward to seeing a good bit of British Engineering at the flyin and hopefully I will get to try it out. I've only flown one machine that was a mid hang point and that was many moons ago. Neilzy has been telling me about how good it is with the moster and the weight saving over his f*@t t^p and my pap. I can see a for sale sign being posted on the super awesome beast and Neilzy saying hello to machine number 3. I think he is nearly as excited Clive as I am about getting on the speedster. I wonder how the two bits of kit would get on together. The moster power and the speedster. Any got that combo? Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Hi Simon Not got that combo but what Neil will find if he switches, is 15 % less thrust (not a problem because he has plenty currently) about the same economy and almost none of the torque steer. And less weight which he has already mentioned. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 How much is the BullDog? I saw them at the nats and the moster was louder than the polini when they all flew off. Seemed well made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon101 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I saw it at the nats and it does look like a really strong bit of kit, very nice. The moster was definitely louder than the polini but the motor's that surprised me the most, which I had never seen in the flesh before were the parajets. They are the loudest machines out there. It was hurting my ears every time one got started up and I know a few of us there were really pleased when pascal campbell jones got out of his and put the pap200 on. I was shocked at the weight and the noise of them. Seems you don't want to go far on them either unless your gonna stop at a fuel station every 2 minutes. Bulldog over parajets any day of the week for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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