cambodia Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Hi Everyone, I don't have a lot of hours and have so far not had a out landing due to engine cut out etc. What I worry about is how little ground is actually covered from say 1000ft and how quick the time passes! Also what looks like a flat field can turn out to be a steep slope when you get nearer to the ground. What I,m looking for is what do you guys look for in this situation.Do you turn downwind to cover more ground and find a suitable area? What advice can you offer to help when this happens. Be gentle,I'ts my first post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 First off, WELCOME! Next this thread will help you. http://www.paramotorclub.org/forum/view ... 97&start=0 Enjoy. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I'm no expert but have had several engine outs in my short flying carreer and it focusses the mind. It's not something to worry about, but it is something to be conscious of. When I fly I am always on the lookout for a forced landing site, bearing in mind the wind direction, ease of extraction to a road, size and surface of the area etc. I plan for an engine out at any minute. When I am beyond the easy glide to my last selected forced landing site then I just pick another one. That way if the worst happens then I immediately know where I'm heading. If you're at 1000 ft you probably have a couple of minutes before you are on the ground. If you don't have a site that you can safely land in within 2 minutes from 1000 ft then put simply, you shouldn't be flying where you are. If you don't plan for an engine out then you are a mug. It WILL happen at some stage. If you know where you are going when it happens then it will be a much less stressfull 2 minutes and will have a much more positive outcome!!! You can of course practice this. Pick sites as you fly then throttle back and glide down. See if you could actually safely make your last chosen site. I do it for the practice and it's fun! Fly safe! Best regards, Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helimed01 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Hi Everyone,I don't have a lot of hours and have so far not had a out landing due to engine cut out etc. What I worry about is how little ground is actually covered from say 1000ft and how quick the time passes! Also what looks like a flat field can turn out to be a steep slope when you get nearer to the ground. What I,m looking for is what do you guys look for in this situation.Do you turn downwind to cover more ground and find a suitable area? What advice can you offer to help when this happens. Be gentle,I'ts my first post! 1.) Always fly as if your engine will stop: Because soon enough it will. 2.) Be within glide of a suitable landing area. 3.) Know the approx wind direction relative to the ground at all times. 4.) Aim for the middle of the chosen area. Don't try and land near the gate to save a walk. 5.) Mobile phone, GPS and wallet are good things to have at all times. Good luck and happy landings. Whitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helimed01 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Hi Everyone,I don't have a lot of hours and have so far not had a out landing due to engine cut out etc. What I worry about is how little ground is actually covered from say 1000ft and how quick the time passes! Also what looks like a flat field can turn out to be a steep slope when you get nearer to the ground. What I,m looking for is what do you guys look for in this situation.Do you turn downwind to cover more ground and find a suitable area? What advice can you offer to help when this happens. Be gentle,I'ts my first post! 1.) Always fly as if your engine will stop: Because soon enough it will. 2.) Be within glide of a suitable landing area. 3.) Know the approx wind direction relative to the ground at all times. 4.) Aim for the middle of the chosen area. Don't try and land near the gate to save a walk. 5.) Mobile phone, GPS and wallet are good things to have at all times. Good luck and happy landings. Whitters. And of course a map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Had an engine problem that put me down yesterday on a fair cross country. I had forgotten my mobile phone (naughty I know) but had the back up of my satellite phone. I was however running my 'SPOT' tracker. I put down in the middle of a meadow, near a road, and pressed the 'Help' button on the spot. The sat phone reception was a little flaky, but the farmer who took me to the farm house and plied me with cake and tea let me use his home phone. By the time I actually got hold of my wife, she was already half way towards me with a full GPS fix and 'Google' map of my location courtesy of the notification text my SPOT had sent. Full marks to the SPOT, first time used in anger. 110% big 'up' to Tom the farmer who, together with his wife, watered and fed me, let me use their phone, dug out an old WD map of England from 1945 showing all the old RAF airbases, and to top it off, took me back to the motor in the Pick-Up so we could bring the motor to the road from the middle of the field. This country is full of some of the nicest people! Phil PS, no amount of pre-flighting would have prevented this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Nice one Phil- good to see that there are some nice people like that about still. "PS, no amount of pre-flighting would have prevented this one. "- these things do happen.. Like the problem i had on Friday- thankfully my needle bearing failure happened on the ground during warmup. A few seconds later i could have been on climbout. I would have been safe enough though- as the field selection had plenty of areas that i could land at in all directions. Immediately after leaving the ground though is not a good time for a cut, as by the time you realise what's going on- to have to arrest the wing surge.. as long as you have height to to this you should be OK though. It really drives the point home though- Never rely on your engine to get you out of a tight spot Apart from the mobile phone- i find carrying a GPS useful to- so that i can relay directions or co-ordinates to the pick-up team. Your 'Spot' system would have this covered though. Also i think it's a good idea to carry a whistle and a torch. If there is a rescue team looking for you- and you're immobile- then you'll loose your voice pretty quickly if you are shouting continuously- A torch is useful should you be caught out on the ground after sunset. Also can be used to signal for help. I've also drilled a small hole through my fuel guage/mirror so that i can use it as an emergency heliograph- but the sun in Ireland is a rare comodity! I used to carry one of these units- They feature a xenon flash, with IR filter and blue filter for attracting attenion- they're used by the mil. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Don't forget that if you are a 'little out of the way' you might need food and water. I'm planning on taking a small 'go bag' for stopping with everytime I fly. Nuts, and fruit flakes are good for longer term energy and chocolate is great as a 'pick me up'. a small bottle of water and some puritabs (for sterilising stream water) with a foldable water container will see you OK. An old saying springs to mind - plan for the worst, hope for the best! Old habits die hard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Ther'es a classic tale of a guy who carried a bottle of Lucozade with him on a flight- thought he'd open it mid flight for a drink. Didn't consider the effect of reduced atmospheric pressure on a carbonated drink- needless to say it was a very sticky mess!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cageuk Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 . By the time I actually got hold of my wife, she was already half way towards me with a full GPS fix and 'Google' map of my location courtesy of the notification text my SPOT had sent. Your wife sounds like a real star as well! You've trained her well sounds like she has the right kind of stuff to be a PPG'er herself! Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Your wife sounds like a real star as well! You've trained her well sounds like she has the right kind of stuff to be a PPG'er herself! Flying doesn't do it for her, she much prefers horses. Definitely a star though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Horses and Paramotor wings... it doesn't bear thinking about (equi-blending). Here is an idea. Develop a rubber neck and always have a good idea where the wind is coming from. That's a given here. 'Engine Failure' Your initial actions - 'fly the aircraft' - Look into wind and if the field prospects are less than inspiring and downwind they are better, and you have the altitude to exploit them, turn down-wind. This will then do two things for you; Firstly, you will cover ground quickly extending the choice of available fields. Second, every field ahead of you now falls into a pattern. Your potential landing fields are all pointing in the direction you have just come from. You are effectively on your downwind leg (for any field that is suitable) and field selection becomes much easier (again - as long as your rubber neck picked up that the choice of fields was better downwind than upwind). Turning downwind sort of makes geometric sense of the fields beneath and ahead of you. It gives them an order and makes likely landing fields stand out in that order. Try it with the engine running. Try to find a field group that provides a spread of landing options.Telegraph poles & pylons mean wires - link them to find them. Streams and rivers often run through low ground.Look upwind of your landing spot for rotor sources - think wind, wind, wind.Check shadows for gradients and surface texture.The consequences of a undershoot or overshoot?Potential ease of recovery - rescue. This can climb the list given the terrain and location. Start with the big factors and work down, you will be amazed at how quickly you can check out fields if you have a system. Think about it beforehand and when it happens, it is quite easy to sort out. Make a decision when you have to (don't leave it too late/low, remember, your option dwindle as you descend) and try to have another field option up your sleeve. There is nothing wrong with being high on base leg. You can beat up and down that leg further evaluating your field(s). As you beat you descend of course, you can chose your moment (height) to turn onto final and land. This method works. Edited August 11, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambodia Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share Posted August 10, 2009 Great help guys. Loads to think about. Love the diagrams Norman. What a great Forum,wished I'd found you sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 'Pleasure Cambodia. The proof of the pudding. It works for gliders - it is normal field landing practice It works for light aircraft - ditto, used it for real twice It works for much larger aircraft in the simulator It works for paramotors - I have used it once - last trip . Go out and try it with your paramotor if you feel confident. Watch out for rotor, livestock and populations. Chose your spot carefully. Try it at your home field - keep a good lookout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Norm, great posting, but I have a slight modification if you will. Your initial action should always be to 'fly the aircraft' anything else comes after that. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Didn't read the edit properly, sorry. The 'After' was frrom a previous edit. I took it out now, thanks Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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