Paramotoring without insurance

[Daniel58]

Hi all

I’m due to undergo Paramotor training in mainland Europe, however I’ve discovered that the insurance for paramotoring will not be valid at all due to FCO advice not to travel to this particular country, due to Covid. 

The instructor has said that he intends to carry on regardless, in the full knowledge that all participants are uninsured and would not be able to be repatriated home in the event of an accident, amongst other other considerations. He said that we have our EHIC cards, though this just covers basic hospital treatment. 

I’ve paid a lot of money and there has been no offer of a refund (I had to push him to admit that we would not be insured), but I feel that this is a very blasé attitude for something so serious and for a beginner. 

I’d be interested to hear what people think about the situation and whether I should go or not. 
 

Thanks

Dan 

[Blackburn Mark]

Its hard to tell what I would do, I have historically been blasé with insurance when it suits me but the fact I had paid for it and not get it would sting a touch.
Abandoning the mission might be a major spanner in your dreams of flight....

Either way, carry the weight of your choice to show your instructor some mercy, sounds like he is in a tricky spot himself  

[Sean Mercer]

Tough one , in these strange times Id probaly just go and get the training. One thing all this covid thing has made me think about what you really want in life, throw (ish) caution to the wind and give it a go perhaps

[Daniel58]

50 minutes ago, Blackburn Mark said:

Its hard to tell what I would do, I have historically been blasé with insurance when it suits me but the fact I had paid for it and not get it would sting a touch.
Abandoning the mission might be a major spanner in your dreams of flight....

Either way, carry the weight of your choice to show your instructor some mercy, sounds like he is in a tricky spot himself  

Hi Mark 

I have been oscillating all day! Yes, I think that you are right. 

I have been checking prospective policies and I am not sure that I would have gained so much from having an actual policy. The only thing that I really seem to be missing out on is the repatriation and the £10K for a missing limb.. 

Thanks very much for your input.

[Daniel58]

9 minutes ago, Sean Mercer said:

Tough one , in these strange times Id probaly just go and get the training. One thing all this covid thing has made me think about what you really want in life, throw (ish) caution to the wind and give it a go perhaps

Hi Sean

I am no stranger on the throwing caution to the wind front.. that is why I was trying to be sensible(ish) for once. 

I have been thinking about paramotoring for years, so I think I will just go and get on with it and hopefully look back in two weeks and be very glad! 

Thanks to both you and Mark 

[AndyB]

Many countries require liability insurance for paramotoring and that is the only reason I have it. I have always looked at medical insurance as being a totally different beast and I use a different company/policy for that.

[powerlord]

liability is the big one - it just takes landing on a field/car/house or an awkward person with an expensive lawyer and you could be talking 10s of thousands.

And having plummeted onto my face in babadag, smashing my nose flat and fracturing my neck - then being taken to the public hospital (like something out of MASH) before playing the 'I have insurance' card - and going to the proper modern one... I'd personally never fly abroad without personal injury insurance.

each to their own risk though - just go in eyes open.

Back in 2005 I went snowboarding in Zermatt - totally forgot to get insurance. 10 mins on slope - fell and broke my collarbone - they wanted to heli me off the mountain as I'd passed out with the pain - I managed to convince them I could sit on a snowski - that plus medical treatment was still 1200 quid. It would have been another 1000 for the chopper.

stu

[Daniel58]

9 hours ago, powerlord said:

liability is the big one - it just takes landing on a field/car/house or an awkward person with an expensive lawyer and you could be talking 10s of thousands.

And having plummeted onto my face in babadag, smashing my nose flat and fracturing my neck - then being taken to the public hospital (like something out of MASH) before playing the 'I have insurance' card - and going to the proper modern one... I'd personally never fly abroad without personal injury insurance.

each to their own risk though - just go in eyes open.

Back in 2005 I went snowboarding in Zermatt - totally forgot to get insurance. 10 mins on slope - fell and broke my collarbone - they wanted to heli me off the mountain as I'd passed out with the pain - I managed to convince them I could sit on a snowski - that plus medical treatment was still 1200 quid. It would have been another 1000 for the chopper.

stu

Good morning Stu 

Thank you for your message, and examples. 

When I asked him about the fact that he was contradicting his own T&Cs by stating that insurance is now not necessary, he replied: 

We are in crazy times and all of us are in the same boat as none of us have repatriation insurance. 

I personally feel the risk of having an accident which requires repatriation is very small, especially in a school environment.

I’m happy for the course to proceed without people having repatriation insurance but it depends upon your attitude to risk. So if you choose to come you can leave that section blank in the Ts and Cs. Our insurance is for 3rd party liability and Covid doesn’t affect this.

If it’s any consolation, we’ve taught 3000+ students over 16 years and 1 person had to be repatriated in 2010 due to a broken leg.

If I am honest, it felt as though he were questioning my 'cojones' rather than taking responsibility himself. I had also mentioned to him in the message that preceded his reply that my cousin was medically repatriated from Chamonix to Oxford due to a snowboarding injury (broken back). 

Remember, I had to push on the insurance aspect as he had been ignoring these questions and had not raised it through his own volition, as he should have done when the situation changed. It makes me worry about a gung-ho attitude which I have observed in other basic questions that I had asked him prior to the insurance situation. 

Sadly, I am aware that many years ago someone had died on one of his courses whilst abroad. I know that these things happen, but the whole 'one broken leg' thing is a bit misleading, IMO. 

I guess the point is; when I asked what options were being offered to us he did not say we can defer or get a refund, then again he says 'if you chose to come'. He just said that we can use our EHIC cards and 'crack on'. Hence, maybe I would be losing £2300, plus the opportunity itself. 

I want to do it, but I understandably want to have my mind as free of worry or concern as possible. The last thing I want to be thinking about are 'what ifs'.

Last night I was all set, this morning I am pondering again 

[Blackburn Mark]

10 minutes ago, Daniel58 said:

Last night I was all set, this morning I am pondering again

I don't envy you.
 

17 minutes ago, Daniel58 said:

as free of worry or concern as possible.

It doesn't take much to get the heebie jeebies especially in the early days.
 

20 minutes ago, Daniel58 said:

The last thing I want to be thinking about are 'what ifs'.

You cant buy your way out of those  
I am assuming you would get the bulk of your money back if you chose that path.
Or you could go for an expensive holiday and take each day as it comes... Choosing not to fly if you get the heebie jeebies... you are the pilot, the final decision on launch is on you!
BUT I am reasonably sure that as soon as you see another student launch and come in for a scruffy landing, your mind will be all "Fcuk this, I have to get myself some of that!".

Its a relatively risky sport, its difficult, smelly, noisy, expensive, the weather window is frustratingly narrow....  Hell, I'm not sure why I bother flying myself.... BUT every now and again, I escaped the earth into another world where few get to go and it all makes sense