myusername Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Hi all, I believe the Irish Aviation Authority may be looking at FLPA licensing at the moment. At the moment there's an Exemption system in place. Ironically gaining the exemption requires doing basically what you'd need to for a license. I would have always been for deregulation. But when I consider individuals doing solo runs & abandoning their national associations to set up their own (Illegitimate?) org's with 'Global'/'International'/'World' etc in the title I think maybe regulation can be a good thing. Anyhow, I'm curious. What are people's opinions of Regulation Vs Deregulation re. advantages & disadvantages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 True the IAA do run an 'Exemption' system, but what use is this if they don't police it. No detections or prosecutions for illegal flying, even when the Irish Air Accident Investigation unit have been involved. If they can't police it, or refuse to allocate resources to policing the requirement for the exemption- then it should be abolished! The system isn't bad on paper- but the requirement for the Class 2 medical certificate is way overkill!!!! Degregulation works fine in the UK- so why should Ireland be any different? GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myusername Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Good points Gordon. I'm just throwing it out there, not for Ireland specifically, but just wondering how the two systems have worked in whatever countries they're being used in. Is the USA deregulated? I ask because the WPPGA (Which i know very little about) seems to be slightly controversial. Would regulation avoid these types of situations? Maybe it causes much more headaches than it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 OK- to answer your question- the system doesn't work in Ireland. 90% of PPG flying is outside the exemption system- therefore technically illegal. I think there was a similar situation with microlights in Ireland also..... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 This will not be a popular view. I fly in France where paramotoring is regulated and we have to have registration numbers on our wings. Despite France's deserved reputation for bureaucracy I have not found regulation an imposition. One of the biggest advantages is that when a pilot misbehaves, because he/she is easily identified, they damn only themselves and not the whole paramotor community. The other advantage is that you know that everybody on a field has at least achieved a minimum level of training. That said, I am told that unregistered wings & unlicensed pilots are not uncommon. ............I'll get my coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 .....One of the biggest advantages is that when a pilot misbehaves, because he/she is easily identified, they damn only themselves and not the whole paramotor community. ..... This is a big plus of the system.. and only those who 'misbehave' fear or argue with it.... The other main advantage is that pilots are trained to a defined standard, and there is a record of who actually flies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 +1 for Chritian and Gordons points. I didn't find it too onerous to become registered and licensed. But...the big disadvantage is if you have multiple wings and/or motors. Technically the wing registration also includes a specific motor unit Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwizz Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 .....One of the biggest advantages is that when a pilot misbehaves, because he/she is easily identified, they damn only themselves and not the whole paramotor community. ..... This is a big plus of the system.. and only those who 'misbehave' fear or argue with it.... The other main advantage is that pilots are trained to a defined standard, and there is a record of who actually flies... 1) A system with the capacity to identify individual pilots in no way prevents public/media perception of their actions being applied to the whole community, any more than is true of the stereotypes applied to, for example, white van drivers. 2) I wholly reject the argument that "only those who misbehave fear or argue with it". There is massive historical precedent for the misuse of this fundamentally flawed argument which could be used to impose any and all kinds of regulation, however inappropriate or diproportionate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 What he said! SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myusername Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is there any actual evidence linking regulation to a reduction in incidents/accidents? I think maybe this is just perception. Most of the accidents I read about involve a good spread of people from regulated/deregulated countries and Nat Associations/Newer Associations/Non-Affiliated Pilots. Although, in deregulated countries more accidents seem to happen outside the Nat Associations. Maybe they just go unreported in countries that have regulation but insufficient resources/motivation for enforcement. Our sport is by its nature more difficult to track than fixed wing aircraft requiring runways, regulated licensing can also be seen as an over-onerous process for what most new flyers see as more akin to paragliding than fixed wing aviation. In a small niche sport under such circumstances regulation may discourage people from pursuing proper training or reporting accidents. In which case we could say that regulation leads to a reduction in safety! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I didn’t say that I am for regulation, I am not. I feel strongly that any given situation can and will be made worse by the involvement of a bureaucrat, lawyer or politician. And your point against ‘only the guilty having anything to fear’ is one with which I totally agree. However because I live in France I have no choice but to fly under regulation and I wanted to point out that is not as terrible as is sometimes implied, I feel no loss of freedom. There are even one or two advantages. I suspect that that British paramotoring will be regulated in the end. There will be some official out there looking to build himself a little empire and then an incident will give him his excuse. The trick will be in getting pilots involved before the bureaucrats come up with their hare brained schemes. Regulation in France is not too bad (yes, there’s plenty of lunacy), but Germany and Switzerland is another matter altogether. Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is there any actual evidence linking regulation to a reduction in incidents/accidents? I think maybe this is just perception. I read in one of my French text books that that France, which is regulated, has about double the accident rate of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdEves Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 There are no officials looking to build empires in the UK, at least no in the regulation of General Aviation. There are very small teams of very hard working guys and girls who are responsible for every aspect of general aviation from light aircraft to UAV's to warbirds, airshows, pleasure flights, business aircraft etc. The last thing they need/want is another class of aircraft to have to look after I can assure you. If we were regulated it would likely be through the BMAA or an equivalent paramotoring specific leisure flying organisation which would operate on behalf of the CAA and be funded by our fees. Sent from Dorset on my iPad probably whilst drinking wine, lying in the sofa using PMC Forum mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 There are no officials looking to build empires in the UK, at least no in the regulation of General Aviation. There are very small teams of very hard working guys and girls who are responsible for every aspect of general aviation from light aircraft to UAV's to warbirds, airshows, pleasure flights, business aircraft etc. The last thing they need/want is another class of aircraft to have to look after I can assure you.If we were regulated it would likely be through the BMAA or an equivalent paramotoring specific leisure flying organisation which would operate on behalf of the CAA and be funded by our fees. Sent from Dorset on my iPad probably whilst drinking wine, lying in the sofa using PMC Forum mobile app "There are no officials looking to build empires in the UK" you have obviously never met Francis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spigot Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 He's not official Sent from my iPhone using PMC Forum mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySnacks Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Ah, the old "if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear" argument. Tell that to, for example, the pistol target shooters. Regulation does not make things safer. Those who are law abiding will register (or give up) and those who are going to be naughty won't bother. It just adds to the costs involved for the law abiding, and limits participation, whilst adding nothing to safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Ah, the old "if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear" argument.Tell that to, for example, the pistol target shooters. Regulation does not make things safer. Those who are law abiding will register (or give up) and those who are going to be naughty won't bother. It just adds to the costs involved for the law abiding, and limits participation, whilst adding nothing to safety. well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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