Radio Help

[bholleran]

I have posted this in the radio section but I thought I would ask in a wider audience as I am not sure how radio specic the question really is.

I have just bought a tyt-800 (specs here http://sophiarose.en.hisupplier.com/pro ... nnels.html)

The frequency's I can get are between 144.00 and 146.00.

The specs state the following should be possible.

136-174mHz /245-246/350-390/400-470/465-520MHz

Ignoring any legalities of using a 2M radio in the air or otherwise what frequencies would be used. An in particular is it in the range I can transmit on. Or have I screwed up and got the wrong radio.

Any suggestions.

Thanks

[alan_k]

Not a good idea to transmit in the amateur bands as the radio amateurs don't like it.

144 to146 is the 2 metre amateur band, 430 to 440 is the 70cms amateur band.

Unless you have another radio to speak to on a frequency within amateur band you won't find many PPGers using 144 to 146.

I notice there is a contact name on the advert for the radio, try asking how to 'unlock' the radio.

I'll do a bit of searching and see if I can find anything.

Cheers,

Alan (radio amateur and radio geek)

[bholleran]

Not a good idea to transmit in the amateur bands as the radio amateurs don't like it.

144 to146 is the 2 metre amateur band, 430 to 440 is the 70cms amateur band.

Unless you have another radio to speak to on a frequency within amateur band you won't find many PPGers using 144 to 146.

I notice there is a contact name on the advert for the radio, try asking how to 'unlock' the radio.

I'll do a bit of searching and see if I can find anything.

Cheers,

Alan (radio amateur and radio geek)

Thanks, are you saying that an average PPGer might use the 430 to 440 range? And that is what I need?

At this stage I can probably return the radio to where I bought it from for either a swap or possible a refund. So I dont want to muck about with it if it is the wrong thing.

Can you recommend a cheap radio that would be in the correct range or that can definetly be put in the correct range. Via jumbers \ Soldering etc with a guide available somewhere.

Regards

Barry

[morgy]

Hi Barry

this is what i use....

http://shop.flybubble.co.uk/alinco-dj-v17e

I will show you on sunday at the field if your still up for it!!!!

[aquatix]

If Alan K doesn't know then probably no-one does .....

It may be easier to exchange that radio for a more common one such as Yaesu, Icom, Alinco, Midland etc. There are also some good Chinee radios such as Puxing which seem to work well.

The other problem you could run into with an uncommon radio is headset compatibility.

[norbertflyer]

Most PG'ers use 144-6. Some use a frequency just outside that (Long Mynd 143.950), but their radios need to be 'expanded' to be able to transmit on this frequency. The Gliding freq 118.675 needs airband. There are a few on this freq when it's a nice lifty day.

I listen to my local airfield (123.000) sometimes, but traffic is very sporadic.

Richard

[outkast]

There's a alinco going for a song in the classifieds right now

[aquatix]

Most PG'ers use 144-6.

I think most PG'ers operate below the HAM frequencies - ie below 144, on expanded sets - or at least they do in the 4 clubs I fly with.

We've mostly switched to PMR sets now for PPG as they seem to suffer less interference from engine noise, and they are cheap enough to leave spare sets with people on the ground. We have no problem communicating up to 10km ground to air or air to air with PMR.

Still not strictly legal but less likely to cause problems than conflicting with amateur radio users.

[alan_k]

As far as I'm aware there is nothing to say that PMR446 can't be used airborne

Cheers,

Alan

[bholleran]

Thanks all to those who replied.

After a few emails back and forth with the manufacturer. IT is possible to unlock this radio.

I will list how to do it here should anyone else get one of these. At Less than £50 it can be bad.

Press and Hold the "Monitor" key and the "Up" key at the same time. Then turn the radio on.

It will be in "Self" Program mode.

Then enter 8282, it will show the current frequency band.

It will be 14414 on a locked radio.

Enter 136174 to get the full range i.e. 136.00 to 174.00

Then turn the radio off and back on and it should be fully unlocked

[alan_k]

Great result, well done.

Alan

[Guest]

It might be worth re-visiting how it has come about that paragliders use 143.800 to 143.950 and why they use particular frequenciy channels in that 2 metre band and what use the channels are allocated.

2M FREQUENCIES

FFVL Balises frequency 143.975

1. 143.950 Main calling channel

2. 143.925

3. 143.900

4. 143.875

5. 143.850 Alternative calling channel in busy areas xTc Channel

6. 143.825

7. 143.800

8. 143.775

9. 143.750

10. 143.725

11. 143.700 Also used as calling channel by PG's in some areas

It was noticed by early paragliders wishing to have communications in competitions in mountainous areas for safety reasons that the frequencies just outside the amateur 2 mtre band were not being allocated by the home office (as was) and that 2 metre 143.9 FM is particularly good for range in hilly areas.

Rod Buck Radio Guru and Ham and PG pilot and BHPA radio officer negotiated a behind the counter "blind eye" approach to its use when in remote areas and from units that have limited power (simialr range to PMR of today).

This frequency was also adopted across Europe and the rest of the world but not officially "legal" anywhere )closest to being legal is in France where the local authorities erect weather beacons for the FFVL to broadcast mountain top wind speeds- the Balises)

The question is whether it is a good idea for ppg to adopt the gains made by others for other purposes in our use of radio in much more populated areas and from altitudes where the range is considerably greater. If you are going to use 2 metre it would be best to adopt the frequency channel chart above and choose 143.850, being furthest away from either the ham frequencies 144 or the spectrum below 143.5

On the plus side radios are much better at holding frequencies these days and the frequencies 143.700 to 143.975 are still not allocated for other uses. Technically there as a buffer for the Ham frequencies.

On the downside increasing and widespread use outside of remote areas and for other than expressly "safety" purposes, might bring an end to the blind eye approach and the loss of a longstanding arrangement, albeit not a legally founded one.

An allternative that is perfectly legal and as cheap is PMR operating at much higher frequency and with dedicated sets that are easy to operate with no chance of accidentally bleeding channels or selecting allocated frequencies.

Anopther perfectly legal alternative, although more expensive, is Air Band 118.675 AM. This frequency is allocated exclusively to "Paragliding" use without the need for an RO licence. Although you are supposed to licenec the set itself at £15 a year, there are no licenceable sets available and the modern sets e.g. Vertex 220, £130 are far better than any sets that do have a CAA approval.

Using a V220 or a god quality PMR e.g. Midland (£80 will give you better quality comms and will keep you the right side of the law and not have any potential to damage the use of 2 metre for others who actually need it where PPG does not.

That is not to say ppg cannot use 2 metre, just giving the background and enabling informed choice.

[bholleran]

It might be worth re-visiting how it has come about that paragliders use 143.800 to 143.950 and why they use particular frequenciy channels in that 2 metre band and what use the channels are allocated.

2M FREQUENCIES

FFVL Balises frequency 143.975

1. 143.950 Main calling channel

2. 143.925

3. 143.900

4. 143.875

5. 143.850 Alternative calling channel in busy areas xTc Channel

6. 143.825

7. 143.800

8. 143.775

9. 143.750

10. 143.725

11. 143.700 Also used as calling channel by PG's in some areas

It was noticed by early paragliders wishing to have communications in competitions in mountainous areas for safety reasons that the frequencies just outside the amateur 2 mtre band were not being allocated by the home office (as was) and that 2 metre 143.9 FM is particularly good for range in hilly areas.

Rod Buck Radio Guru and Ham and PG pilot and BHPA radio officer negotiated a behind the counter "blind eye" approach to its use when in remote areas and from units that have limited power (simialr range to PMR of today).

This frequency was also adopted across Europe and the rest of the world but not officially "legal" anywhere )closest to being legal is in France where the local authorities erect weather beacons for the FFVL to broadcast mountain top wind speeds- the Balises)

The question is whether it is a good idea for ppg to adopt the gains made by others for other purposes in our use of radio in much more populated areas and from altitudes where the range is considerably greater. If you are going to use 2 metre it would be best to adopt the frequency channel chart above and choose 143.850, being furthest away from either the ham frequencies 144 or the spectrum below 143.5

On the plus side radios are much better at holding frequencies these days and the frequencies 143.700 to 143.975 are still not allocated for other uses. Technically there as a buffer for the Ham frequencies.

On the downside increasing and widespread use outside of remote areas and for other than expressly "safety" purposes, might bring an end to the blind eye approach and the loss of a longstanding arrangement, albeit not a legally founded one.

An allternative that is perfectly legal and as cheap is PMR operating at much higher frequency and with dedicated sets that are easy to operate with no chance of accidentally bleeding channels or selecting allocated frequencies.

Anopther perfectly legal alternative, although more expensive, is Air Band 118.675 AM. This frequency is allocated exclusively to "Paragliding" use without the need for an RO licence. Although you are supposed to licenec the set itself at £15 a year, there are no licenceable sets available and the modern sets e.g. Vertex 220, £130 are far better than any sets that do have a CAA approval.

Using a V220 or a god quality PMR e.g. Midland (£80 will give you better quality comms and will keep you the right side of the law and not have any potential to damage the use of 2 metre for others who actually need it where PPG does not.

That is not to say ppg cannot use 2 metre, just giving the background and enabling informed choice.

Thanks very much for the very full reply. I was aware of some of that information but not all of it.

In my particular case I already have and use Midland G7 PMR Radios and these work great. But in particular I recently wanted to fly with a new group of pilots who use the ranges you have listed above (2M).

I now have both and will choose accordingly.

Thanks again.

[alan_k]

...closest to being legal is in France where the local authorities erect weather beacons for the FFVL to broadcast mountain top wind speeds- the Balises)

There are other weather stations in France on 145.975, I know of one at the Libarderie club just north of Limoge. Not actually stated as 'legal' but allocated anyway.

If you are going to use 2 metre it would be best to adopt the frequency channel chart above and choose 143.850, being furthest away from either the ham frequencies 144 or the spectrum below 143.5

On the plus side radios are much better at holding frequencies these days and the frequencies 143.700 to 143.975 are still not allocated for other uses. Technically there as a buffer for the Ham frequencies.

I wouldn't be concerned about being close to 144 for the reason you gave plus just above 144 in the ham band is CW and SSB, unlikely to be bothered by FM transmissions.

My advice is to use the lowest power that you can set on your 2m radio, whilst airborne. I use 0.3W and achieve tens of kilometers range without problem.

Cheers,

Alan