fanman Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 I have flown a few borrowed Paramania wings over the last few years and never been quite as keen on them as I am on Dudek wings. I decided that maybe my view might change if I live with one for a while so a couple of weeks ago I bought the Revo that was logo'd up as The Channel/HP that Richard Whitmarsh flew in the tip to tip a couple of years ago. I was sold it as a 26 and that was indeed what it said on the inner bag. This morning I was removing the last of the stickers but couldn't help thinking it felt big for a 26. I had a look at the plate but the writing is not clearly distinguishable. I took some measurements of the span, chord and some primary line lengths which when compared to the manual say it is a 28. I would have thought that Richard was more likely to be on a 28 than a 26 to match his speeds closer to the more svelt chaps on their 26's. I have tried searching the relevant part of this forum but so far have been unable to find the size he was flying. Also, was the colour scheme a limited run for these wings? The orange part of the upper surface does not conform with the standard nightshade colours. Have tried a couple of flights on it so far and now knowing it might be a size bigger than I thought explains a couple of things already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poz Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Surely a call to Paramania with the serial number would clear this up. +33 970466449. Whilst deciding whether or not to get Revo2, I was on the phone to them almost every week picking their brains. Most of the time it was either Mike or Pascal that answered. They were really helpful and patient. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 Can't read it clearly... and there are many on here that are familiar with the individual wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 When I bought my ReAction 29 the inner bag said 27. The previous owner had both so must have got the bags mixed up Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 Yes, I'm sure that's what's happened here. After the tip to tip any wing got shoved in any bag. A 28 suits me better than a 26 anyway. Now just got to learn to like it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 color run was one off for the tip to tip wings. The the HP wing that Whitters flew was a 28 (of this I am 100% sure) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Thanks for that. As far as I'm concerned it's defo the 28 you say it is. I flew a Fusion 26 a couple of times this morning and noticed that the number I couldn't decipher on my Revo was written the same way on the Fusion so am now further convinced it is what you say it is. I was quite surprised by the Fusion, it was better than I expected. The handling was really lively for a paramotor wing. I suspect this is slightly at the expense of lateral stability in rough conditions but it was certainly nice in calm weather. It had new risers that had just been fitted which needed 2 hands to pull in to a slower setting which is a shame (one hand to pull and one to hold the D riser up). The trim tabs are much better than the Revo but it is still quite hard to see the take off position. I guess it's just a case of memorising the number. Take off and landing speed was excellent but why won't Paramania give us split A's? I won't be changing from my Nucleon (the feel of the Dudek risers just oozes quality) but it is an interesting alternative. Glide performance seemed similar on both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Interesting little comparison Fanman. I'm gobsmacked that Paramania don't do split A's when it makes forwards so much easier. I flew in nil wind yesterday evening and I don't have any anxiety about forward launches. Cheers, Alan _____________________ Dudek ReActionTST 29 Fresh Breeze Airboss (Solo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Interesting little comparison Fanman.I'm gobsmacked that Paramania don't do split A's when it makes forwards so much easier. I flew in nil wind yesterday evening and I don't have any anxiety about forward launches. Cheers, Alan thats a simple one to answer. You dont need split As on a Fusion it just comes up straight anyway, _____________________ Dudek ReActionTST 29 Fresh Breeze Airboss (Solo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 You dont need split As on a Fusion it just comes up straight anyway Neither do you need them on a Synthesis, ReAction or Nucleon but it does make it more forgiving of a set up that is slightly out of wind or not centered perfectly by not trying to lift the parts of the wing with the most asymetric leverage if misaligned (ie the tips). Split A's allow these to follow in their own time. I find my Plasma does really require the A's being split but that is probably being higher aspect ratio spread over 70 cells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Hummm, A decent set up wing, into wind, equal pressure... and so on, is the real issue when it comes to failed forward launches. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Absolutely right... but if you can launch without load on the outer part of the wing then so much the better. If you have to have tension on the outer part of the A's then being slightly out of wind will give one tip much more lift (and therefore asymetric leverage) than the other. Having the choice to just use the inners keeps the lifting section central, allowing the outer parts to just follow reducing the chance of the wing going off sideways. When the wind is light and variable it is impossible to set up perfectly as there is no defined wind direction. A wing that is more tolerant to the variables becomes invaluable. Perhaps the original Revo might not have got its minor reputation for being tricky to launch in low winds if it had split A's? I might try fitting some Dudek risers to mine next month and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I agree i had the synthesis 34 before i bought the fusion and the Dudek risers are far better quality. My fusion has not done 80 hours yet and the markings have worn off and my left hand riser slips through the clamp, there was talk of an upgrade riser system has anyone heard anything yet cheers Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 Just looked at Alan K's youtube vid in the photos/videos forum. It gives a perfect demo of why split A's are helpful. You can see (later on in the vid) that the light wind is slightly from the right but when he pulls up the wing the center is properly inflated while the tips are filling as soon as they are ready. If the outer A's were tensioned then his left tip would probably be more pressurised than his right and the wing would be trying to turn to his right. Lovely demo vid Alan K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Glad you liked the video Fanman, my sister in law was doing the filming so she's quite chuffed it came out alright. The takeoff was actually nil wind, but I agree with your sentiments about split As. My previous PG wing would go off to the side just when it felt like seemingly. The number of practice lauches I did where it went off to the left I can't tell you. I think I must have had a parallax error when sighting the windsock Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Just looked at Alan K's youtube vid in the photos/videos forum. It gives a perfect demo of why split A's are helpful. You can see (later on in the vid) that the light wind is slightly from the right but when he pulls up the wing the center is properly inflated while the tips are filling as soon as they are ready. If the outer A's were tensioned then his left tip would probably be more pressurised than his right and the wing would be trying to turn to his right. Lovely demo vid Alan K. But if you lay your wing out correctly then the centre will come up first anyway, horses for courses good pilots can do it with no split As, the rest use inner As only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 How should a new guy lay his wing out when the wind is variable? There is no right way, you just have to wait for the wind to momentarily be right for the way you chose to set up. Split A's help to reduce the lateral asymmetry that inflated tips can give making the wing more tolerant to variations. It's all about inflating the wing with the lift centered rather than across the entire span. Good pilots can do it without split A's (especially if they use other techniques such as a V in the wing or folding the tips) but alot of these wings are being sold to guys as first wings, such as the Revo. Why is it wrong to give them the tools to make life easier? If you pull up a Plasma using all the A's it will often horseshoe as the tips lift before the center. I have had this on a Paramania wing as well before however at least the Plasma gives you the option to only load the center on launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 If they learn on an "easy wing" then when they up grade they have a learning curve again, where as If they learn to control the wing on inflation from the beginning they have a much smaller learning curve. Just look at the number of pilots out there that do not like doing forward launches, most of my (and I think Simons?) students actually prefer forwards to reverse launches. Most are using the Revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 I think you are missing the point here Pete. What is a good reason for not giving our wings that are routinely launched in light and variable wings split A's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I think you are missing the point here Pete. What is a good reason for not giving our wings that are routinely launched in light and variable wings split A's? No reason, and why should there be a reason. I dont really agree that they are that much easier to launch to be honest, I learned on a wing that did not have split As and progressed as quick as every one else even though some had split As on their wings. You will not get manufacturers of anything to change there designs just because other manufacturers do it different and SOME people find theirs easier to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 s'funny because on the prop thread you are saying that you encourage progress Pete! I think I can see the way you want to take the discussion so I shall leave this with the reference to the excellent video Alan has made and with the actual facts I have explained and let be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 s'funny because on the prop thread you are saying that you encourage progress Pete! I think I can see the way you want to take the discussion so I shall leave this with the reference to the excellent video Alan has made and with the actual facts I have explained and let be. Encourage progress yes some thing NEW / UNTRIED before. I dont want to take it any where, where was I taking it because I dont know! I was just giving my opinion on the subject the same as you. It matters not to me if they change or not, and I cannot see that it will effect anyone else either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 How should a new guy lay his wing out when the wind is variable? All of our students know the answer to that question. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 How should a new guy lay his wing out when the wind is variable? All of our students know the answer to that question. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnorton Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 How should a new guy lay his wing out when the wind is variable? All of our students know the answer to that question. SW I believe the answer is 'several times' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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