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Fast Jets


shaggydec
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Hi everyone.

I live on the Lleyn Peninsula in North Wales and generally fly evenings and weekends , but now the clocks have gone back my evening flying has got a lot shorter ! We have fast , low flying jets from Valley that fly from 7.30am to about 5 ish and my house is on the flightpath with planes as low as 150 ft. Weekends are good cause they dont fly then but you re not always guaranteed the weather.

I do NOTAM now and again but its a pain when you want a "quickie" ! My understanding is that i can fly anytime and as long as i stay visible and below cloud then the other aircraft must look out for me ?

On one occasion when i did NOTAM it seemed to be busier than ever with two F15 s looping above me , three Hawks circling and three Seakings passing by ! Just having a nosy i suppose ! :D

Its cool when they give you a "Wing Wave " though !

You re thoughts please

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Hi everyone.

I live on the Lleyn Peninsula in North Wales and generally fly evenings and weekends , but now the clocks have gone back my evening flying has got a lot shorter ! We have fast , low flying jets from Valley that fly from 7.30am to about 5 ish and my house is on the flightpath with planes as low as 150 ft. Weekends are good cause they dont fly then but you re not always guaranteed the weather.

I do NOTAM now and again but its a pain when you want a "quickie" ! My understanding is that i can fly anytime and as long as i stay visible and below cloud then the other aircraft must look out for me ?

On one occasion when i did NOTAM it seemed to be busier than ever with two F15 s looping above me , three Hawks circling and three Seakings passing by ! Just having a nosy i suppose ! :D

Its cool when they give you a "Wing Wave " though !

You re thoughts please

Even if they are looking out for you you will come off worst in the event of a close call!!!

Is it really worth the risk?

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I often fly around the AIAA of Spadeadam & Otterburn ranges on the Borders,

THIS operational timetable is useful, you are in the LFA 7(T) area. Generally weekends are dead so this time of year you should be fine as it's dark in the evenings ! Had a close call with a Tornado once, unfortunately it ended up spread over the field next to my house :( (I was not flying I hasten to add)

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Far from being a perfect solution but you should definitely use the CANP with a suitable amount of notification time.

As I understand it, the CANP should only be invoked when there are a number of motors flying at the same time from the same location. That is not to say of course that the five mates you were planning on flying with, just didn't turn up ;-)

Using CANP, at least RAF pilots should get a heads up about your activities as long as you do it far enough in advance (is it 24 hours, can't remember off hand?).

I would think a good strobe could be one of your best allies. See, and BE SEEN!

I am in a similar position, right on the edge of Lincs AIAA, with circuit traffic for Waddington and Cranwell coming close, as well as fast low transits by mostly Toccanos. Get high (preferably above 2000 feet) as quick as you can, and keep a good lookout to make your contribution to the deal.

I actually selected my wing colours with visibility issues such as this as the prime mover.

It can be quite fun watching the military stuff below you.

Phil

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So ?? Am i legal to fly ?? Usually i try to go to somewhere " Off Piste " where the chances of someone screaming up behind is at least reduced...i avoid the valleys and generally spend time low near the beaches . A couple of weeks ago some lads were flying down here and two F15s came a little too close , and they HAD Notam ed...

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58191C74_9B01_EF0A_593CC8606F9DDF39.jpg

Great advice from Phil, I would go further due to the nature of Valley's activities.

Were I operating anywhere in Anglesey either during, just prior, or just after RAF Valley's operating hours I would talk direct to Valley ATC and let them know the details of my activities. I would make the call either the night before or on the day I intended to fly giving them time to include me on the activities boards they use to brief their crews.

Tel: 01407- 672241 Ext: -7462 (Supervisors Desk)

If your activities are local to the island and proximate mainland - make the call, they will thank you for it.

Fast jet students and QFIs both operate under a high workload as you know and any forewarning is really useful. You don't have to hit more than three paramotors in a quick pointy thing to make your eyes water, join Martin Baker's special club and ruin someone's back garden. As others have said, they don't even need to hit you to produce a record heart rate and an unscheduled reserve repack. Trust me, that close in (to their terminal area) they will be interested...

53695850_1143_EC82_2E0C0287A2E6ADC9.jpg

Am I legal?

This is the interesting point, if you are outside their ATZ and any notified airspace then yes, you are legal but don't take my word for it. Pull out a current quarter/half mill and check. Legal isn't always safe as the condom advertisers will confirm.

20091102-nwefhxrd7txexwhmq61rkp4mdu.png

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shaggydec,

I have just (10:05/02nd Oct) been talking to the Duty Supervisor (ATC RAF Valley) about the questions raised above. He has validated all I have laid out in my post.

Use the number provided entering the extension when asked for by the auto operator, this takes you straight to the supervisors desk where you can pass details of your planned activities.

When he has these details he rings the squadrons where their briefers will update the days 'Activities Board' which crews use in preparation for their sorties. They then avoid your area of operations. They will work at keeping you clear of their MATZ if you are non-VHF (airband) but only a loon would dawdle close to Valley's manor wouldn't he? :lol:

Peace of mind is a wonderful thing but it needs effort to achieve it.

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That'll teach me to look at my charts before replying. It looks like in Valley's AIAA that you are best below 2000 feet. That somehow sounds at odds with others reports of activity in the area.

The chats with ATC are definitely your very best option, as they are definitely in the business of keeping everyone safe and are helpful and accommodating whenever it is humanly possible.

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Not at all Phil,

Ordinarily you would be right about bands of highest aerial activity. Valley is different in that they train intensively both at low level and with ACMs at low-med-high which fills the entire airspace block. They transit at 250-500' to the exercise area then climb for upper air exercises then poke off home at low level again extracting all the value they can from every trip. This really is an AIAA, the busiest in the UK.

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