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Ganbatte

Titanium Exhaust

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Does anyone here have any first or second hand experience with the Skymax titanium exhaust for the moster? Durability, any effect on perceived thrust or noise, any adverse effects on the engine, etc? It looks (from the marketing info, but you know about relying on marketing info) as if it'd shave a bit of weight off the vitto steel exhausts, and I can handle the cost, but I hate to seriously consider any expenditure without user experience data. Thanks!

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No direct experience :( 
I would assume it has a negligible performance loss gain with it being a drop in (unless it comes with a set of jets....?)
It ought (in principle) be lighter.
IF it was very fatigue resistant, you would expect a long warranty.
Pricey

Two schools of thought (I guess)
A) Give me something I can fix with some cheek and two packets of hobnobs
B) Give me some Bling... ill throw cash at any problems  :)

A lightweight, beautifully designed and built paramotor is a thing to behold... But for some of us mere mortals, something we can fix with a hammer and a shoe lace will still see us to cloud-base :) 

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Well if I were to go with that Ti exhaust, it'd automatically make the vitto original exhaust an on-hand spare, wouldn't it? So durability counts, and Ti is weldable if it's not overstressed to begin with, so not even much down time. But it'd be nice to know if it's likely to last, perform reasonably, and not hurt the engine.

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23 minutes ago, Ganbatte said:

Well if I were to go with that Ti exhaust, it'd automatically make the vitto original exhaust an on-hand spare, wouldn't it?

Good point
 

 

23 minutes ago, Ganbatte said:

Ti is weldable

If you can weld aluminum, you can weld Ti... by all accounts, its a bit fussier then aluminum (back-purge)... I have yet to try it myself.
 

 

26 minutes ago, Ganbatte said:

if it's not overstressed

That's the question... Ti has some favorable fatigue qualities IF you can stay within its spring limits... that's where I have my doubts... a paramotor exhaust has a pretty rough life.

 

30 minutes ago, Ganbatte said:

But it'd be nice to know if it's likely to last, perform reasonably, and not hurt the engine.

If its a drop in exhaust, you are very unlikely to lose any performance or damage your engine, if its Ti, it ought to be lighter.
Unfortunately, you will be playing the scientist on its durability unless someone has any direct experience.
I would be disappointed if it didn't outlast an original, I would hope it was designed to take advantage of titanium's better fatigue qualities.

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Yes, you're correct on all points. I've not seen user feedback anywhere regarding the skymax Ti exhaust, but am enticed by the weight shaved, hence me soliciting such experiences. (I'm really struggling with even "light" school motors, so looking for ways to make my life easier at grunt time, without making it harder at wrench time.)   :)

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Well they have had one in the past, botched it (apparently their idea of life cycle testing is less than 30 hours, as so many failed at that age), might possibly be making another run at it. Even if they are, and it happens within a year, I predict they'l charge a lot for it. The skymax is a current product and not too pricey. But more than I'm willing to gamble w/o user experience.

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21 hours ago, Ganbatte said:

Well they have had one in the past, botched it (apparently their idea of life cycle testing is less than 30 hours, as so many failed at that age), might possibly be making another run at it. Even if they are, and it happens within a year, I predict they'l charge a lot for it. The skymax is a current product and not too pricey. But more than I'm willing to gamble w/o user experience.

isn’t vittorazi releasing a Ti exhaust soon.?A8DEC662-2F18-4E6D-A184-724599C3C2EB.jpeg.7411cc5d718065bf53695a0195dcd1fd.jpeg

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got a reply from skymax....

I asked wether they improved it since 2017 and if they resolved the issues...

their answer,they improved it apparently and are testing now...

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I'm still confused. You asked Skymax about vittorazzi making a new versions of the Vitto Ti exhaust, and Skymax said Vitto has a new version under test?

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The last Vitto Ti exhaust was junk :( I sold 'one' to a customer in 2018 who insisted on the Factory version, It has now been replaced thrice. (in a year or so) 

They make amazing engines but man... those exhausts!! 

I just don't get why the issues... there are thousands of higher performance 2 stroke engines out there without bushings that need replacing every 5 mins (OK not a mega drama to do, but why!!!) A friend has a 35 year old Yamaha RD500 which still has the original exhaust system and gaskets! (never removed as no need to) 

The Moster community seem to have been brainwashed to think its OK to have to change a gasket every 50 hours (actually it's way less in reality) Imagine if you had any other engine, even a lawn mower... that needed this, would you but it???  

SW :D

 

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10 hours ago, Ganbatte said:

I'm still confused. You asked Skymax about vittorazzi making a new versions of the Vitto Ti exhaust, and Skymax said Vitto has a new version under test?

no no..

i asked skymax about their exhaust..

the one discussed above as an option..

i know vitto doesn’t offer theirs anymore but saw pics of a ti version which is supposed to be available at some point...

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40 minutes ago, admin (Simon W) said:

The last Vitto Ti exhaust was junk :( I sold 'one' to a customer in 2018 who insisted on the Factory version, It has now been replaced thrice. (in a year or so) 

They make amazing engines but man... those exhausts!! 

I just don't get why the issues... there are thousands of higher performance 2 stroke engines out there without bushings that need replacing every 5 mins (OK not a mega drama to do, but why!!!) A friend has a 35 year old Yamaha RD500 which still has the original exhaust system and gaskets! (never removed as no need to) 

The Moster community seem to have been brainwashed to think its OK to have to change a gasket every 50 hours (actually it's way less in reality) Imagine if you had any other engine, even a lawn mower... that needed this, would you but it???  

SW :D

 

they need to get someone else to make them..!

I’ve got bikes with ti exhausts with no problems ... 

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6 hours ago, nicosangeli said:

they need to get someone else to make them..!

I've been told that's what EOS does: subbed out the exhaust to some Japanese company that makes exhausts for 2 cycle dirt bikes and stuff. Seems the appropriate approach to a specialty part like that.

If skymax has a new version in the pipe, that's interesting. I wonder if there was a problem with the one I've seen pics of, or if they improved performance or mfg cost, or what. Well we'll see what they say when they announce it. Maybe.

Since you didn't say anything about estimated release date, I'll assume they're mum on that for the moment. 

(Re the confusion, you posted what looks like a vitto trade show pic, so I thought you were speaking of a new version from vitto. Ah!)

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So, Skymax says their v2 titanium exhaust looks the same as v1, and performs about the same. They say it incorporates (undisclosed) incremental minor improvements. If the v1 had specific problems, they're not fessing up to what they were.

So, bump. Does anyone have 1st or 2nd hand experience with these exhausts? Thanks!

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i’ve received mine a few days ag but haven’t fitted it yet..

looks promising but i’ll share my experience as soon as i fit it and try it..!

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I was looking at fitting the Skymax Ti exhaust to my Skymax to reduce the weight even further so I've been following this topic for some time now.

I know of someone in the process of testing one and his Ti exhaust cracked due to a badly unbalanced propeller. He took it off to have it repaired then decided to put the original Moster exhaust back on to feel the difference between the two. Apparently the Moster exhaust delivers more power than the Skymax Ti exhaust. I've not tried it myself so cannot verify this.

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Well that's not what I wanted to hear, but all data is valuable. How does he characterize the power differences (I'm assuming it's feel, not instrumented testing); slight difference? Big difference? Something inbetween?

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Exhausts can create massive differences in your power output. Heck, I could build an exhaust for your vittorazi that could give the engine 45hp. The difference is that my exhaust would give you 45hp only within about 5 rpm of what I set it to. Even 15 rpm off from the tune length and you would be lucky to get 15hp.

Anyway. Exhausts are built around a compromise between peak power and the power band.(Wider power band= less peak power) They can also be built to deliver peak power almost anywhere in the power band based on the length from the engine to the back of the expansion chamber.(longer=lower rpm power).

Anyway my point is that the expansion chamber that you choose can and will make a massive difference in how your engine performs and many of the engines characteristics.

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Spot on, and should we learn that skymax's exhaust drops power a little and flattens the power curve a bit, that would be an interesting datum, maybe even a selling point. It surely would be nice if mfr's published measured curves, so we'd have some clue about these things. The worrisome possibility would be that they're good at titanium fabrication, but not at exhaust design, resulting in a product that's disappointing across the board. I really hope that's not the case, but right now, data are scarce.

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19 hours ago, Ganbatte said:

Well that's not what I wanted to hear, but all data is valuable. How does he characterize the power differences (I'm assuming it's feel, not instrumented testing); slight difference? Big difference? Something inbetween?

I hear you...not what I wanted to hear either. I was hoping to knock off another 1.6kg ish on my already light 23,5kg rig. I didn't question too much and thought I wouldn't chance spending the $800 odd on it until there was WAY more data available. According to Skymax, the output is the same as the original Vitto but even amongst the Vitto exhaust models there is a difference in power output and at different rev ranges. Bob27, you've explained this very well.

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