Another Northern Noob...

[weegaz22]

Hi Guys, been keen on getting into Paramotors for a couple of months, hoping to do some paragliding lessons first  as that's kind of the way my local instructor tends to teach the course if you've never flown before, its Cloudbusters up here near Glasgow i will be learning with as i couldn't see/find anyone else up here in Scotland that does it, i plan to do their "elementary pilot" for the paraglide course then look at buying my own kit and do some ppg lessons with them as they prefer you to have your own kit for ppg, i suppose that means they aren't going to be biased towards pushing me toward a certain motor/wing combo they want to sell you like other places.

I'm guessing doing some paragliding might learn me more finesse with the wing and takeoff and actively piloting it rather that just getting into paramotor straight away and relying on thrust from the get go? hopefully looking to start around October but realise the weathers gonna be against me and  its probably gonna take a while (and trying to fit it around other hobbies)

 

any advice/hints tips would be appreciated

Cheers

[AndyB]

Depending how quickly you want to get going, don't bother with pg!

[weegaz22]

PPG is the goal, but wouldn't doing some PG then transitioning be better? any reasons against transitioning? just thinking if i learn with only having the wing to contend with first then add the motor later on would be less of an information overload.

As said i'm a newbie and have limited teaching options up here other than having to take time off work and drive south of the border to somewhere in the north of England to learn.

[chrsfrwll]

When learning to ppg, you learn how to control the wing first, well if the instructor is worth anything. You'll have your hands full with that. Then, when you can demonstrate good wing control, you'll be introduced to the motor. 

Some advocate PG then PPG but if your aim is PPG, then learn that. It'll save you time and money.

[weegaz22]

On 19/09/2019 at 07:34, chrsfrwll said:

When learning to ppg, you learn how to control the wing first, well if the instructor is worth anything. You'll have your hands full with that. Then, when you can demonstrate good wing control, you'll be introduced to the motor. 

Some advocate PG then PPG but if your aim is PPG, then learn that. It'll save you time and money.

I could see it saving me money if I had other options, but I don't tbh, if I don't learn up here then it's going to be the extra costs of taking time off work during the week, travelling to somewhere in England, maybe staying a few nights at a hotel on the hope that the weather's going to be good etc, at least if it gets called off here due to weather then I'm only a half hour drive back home. 

[Richard Leishman]

Hi weegaz22, welcome to the sport.

I would not bother with PG, there are some things in PG that are taught differently with PPG so I would learn the PPG way so you do not get mixed knowledge. One example in PG you are taught to lean forward on launch, leaning forward in PPG could cause injury and/or damage to gear. 

You are going to have to visit your PPG trainer multiple times until he feels you are ready to be signed-off. 

I trained in Scunthorpe with Brad Quinn around 2 and a half hours from me. I booked a few days in one go, stayed in a hotel and then revisited for a while until he and I were comfortable that I could fly on my own. 

Rich

[AndyB]

Be careful which instructor you chose. Make sure they are registered (trained) to provide a recognised syllabus/training programme that an insurance company will accept eg BHPA or APPI registered. I think the above guy is neither.

[Richard Leishman]

AndyB, do you have something personal against Brad? You seem to shoot him or anyone down that mentions him? I myself am trained by Brad. I feel my training was very good. I am also insured.

[AndyB]

From personal experience of trying to fly with a guy trained by him, plus lots of feedback on other forums about his bad training. It's just most people never like to say anything bad. I do, because someone died last year who was not flying to a good standard. I saw it. Month later, dead.

Who is your insurance with? I could not get insured without providing one of the above training certs. PMC do their own insurance? Do they check your training before giving you insurance?  Is the PMC insurance accepted everywhere?

[Richard Leishman]

Hi Andy,

I know how you feel, I too have experienced death of a friend in the sport first hand, I know the importance of good training. I won't go into detail about Brad's training syllabus and techniques as we have discussed this before, I think you should meet him before you make assumptions from a collective of comments from other people. People pass their driving test and wrap their car round a tree, this does not make it the instructors fault.

I am with AXA 3rd party cover, there are no checks. 

Rich.

[AndyB]

OK, point taken re Brad. AXA would not let me take out cover without first sending the training cert! Have you had yours for some time - before they started doing checks?

[richjones]

I just insured with Axa last week. No checks. 

[weegaz22]

On 07/10/2019 at 13:14, AndyB said:

Be careful which instructor you chose. Make sure they are registered (trained) to provide a recognised syllabus/training programme that an insurance company will accept eg BHPA or APPI registered. I think the above guy is neither.

Peter at cloudbusters is a BHPA Registered school and he requires me to join the BHPA before any training can be undertaken, this is the reply he sent me

"Hi Gary

 Thanks for your enquiry to Paramotor, I have attached details of the courses Cloudbusters have to offer.   We train students to the nationally established syllabus of the BHPA (The British Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, our governing body)    The paraglider is the flying part of the paramotoring kit, and therefore I recommend that if a student has no previous paragliding experience, then they should enrol for an Elementary Pilot course.   After this, the decision can be made regarding adding the motor or progressing to Club Pilot.    All training in paragliding includes the use of the paraglider, but when it comes to paramotoring, it is suggested that you get your own machine. (we also supply new and second hand equipment to the students.)

 I train all year round at weekends, so I am sure you would be able to fit in with courses we have running at the moment.

 Please call me if you need any more information"

These are descriptions on the levels he mentions from his brochure

ELEMENTARY PILOT RATING ~ : This is the basic pilot rating and includes rules of the air, flight theory, pre flight canopy checks, demonstrate control in the air and landing. There is also a short written examination after which you progress on to Club Pilot

CLUB PILOT RATING ~ :  This is the second level pilot rating and includes flying at certain height levels, top landings, soaring, and written examination. Students at this level require full membership to the BHPA, and on gaining Club Pilot Rating the pilot is then able to fly unsupervised."

So probably looking at doing elementary pilot and then buying my own kit and adding the motor to the training

[weegaz22]

19 hours ago, richjones said:

I just insured with Axa last week. No checks. 

Just out of interest Rich what does the insurance cover?

[Richard Leishman]

16 minutes ago, weegaz22 said:

Just out of interest Rich what does the insurance cover?

Third Party Liability for single-seated, motorised hang-gliders and paragliders, valid worldwide (except USA, US territories and Canada), competition risks included    € 1.500.000
loss liability (without prior damage to property)    € 12.000
Emergency rescue costs resulting from accidents with the glider insured (personal rescue only)    € 2.600 or € 10.000 depending on which premium you choose.

[AndyB]

21 hours ago, richjones said:

I just insured with Axa last week. No checks. 

Have you been insured with them before? and if so, since when. I think they only introduced checks a few years ago and then when you renew they do not re-check as your rating is for life.

[richjones]

1 hour ago, AndyB said:

Have you been insured with them before? and if so, since when. I think they only introduced checks a few years ago and then when you renew they do not re-check as your rating is for life.

No. Only started paramotoring in January and just thought it time to get insured. 

[TreeFiddy]

On 08/10/2019 at 16:31, weegaz22 said:

Peter at cloudbusters is a BHPA Registered school and he requires me to join the BHPA before any training can be undertaken, this is the reply he sent me

"Hi Gary

 Thanks for your enquiry to Paramotor, I have attached details of the courses Cloudbusters have to offer.   We train students to the nationally established syllabus of the BHPA (The British Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, our governing body)    The paraglider is the flying part of the paramotoring kit, and therefore I recommend that if a student has no previous paragliding experience, then they should enrol for an Elementary Pilot course.   After this, the decision can be made regarding adding the motor or progressing to Club Pilot.    All training in paragliding includes the use of the paraglider, but when it comes to paramotoring, it is suggested that you get your own machine. (we also supply new and second hand equipment to the students.)

 I train all year round at weekends, so I am sure you would be able to fit in with courses we have running at the moment.

 Please call me if you need any more information"

These are descriptions on the levels he mentions from his brochure

ELEMENTARY PILOT RATING ~ : This is the basic pilot rating and includes rules of the air, flight theory, pre flight canopy checks, demonstrate control in the air and landing. There is also a short written examination after which you progress on to Club Pilot

CLUB PILOT RATING ~ :  This is the second level pilot rating and includes flying at certain height levels, top landings, soaring, and written examination. Students at this level require full membership to the BHPA, and on gaining Club Pilot Rating the pilot is then able to fly unsupervised."

So probably looking at doing elementary pilot and then buying my own kit and adding the motor to the training

Did you get round to signing up for the elementary pilot rating? 

Newbie here myself based in Edinburgh, looked at going to Cloudbusters once things settle a bit but their website is down for maintenance 

[weegaz22]

On 02/05/2020 at 19:43, TreeFiddy said:

Did you get round to signing up for the elementary pilot rating? 

Newbie here myself based in Edinburgh, looked at going to Cloudbusters once things settle a bit but their website is down for maintenance 

No I didnt get round to it and the way this year went didn't help, had also seen one or 2 bad reviews on google later on with regards to cloudbusters taking money for vouchers and then not honouring their promise so haven't really done anything as there isn't really many folk up here doing it tbh.