Experienced PG pilots first PPG wing

[Justin]

Hi,

I just want to clear up a bit of uncertainty I have about getting my first PPG wing with a background of paragliding experience from ridge soaring & XC flying.

I've been free flying paragliders for the last 16 years, previously flying DHV2 level paragliders from ridge soaring to cross country flying, with experience flying abroad in the French Alps & southern Spain. I'm currently flying a Nova Mentor 3, but I'm not as current as I used to be having a young family.

I'm planning to do a paramotor conversion course, ready to start next spring. I plan to start out on my Mentor 3 for my first few flights, but my question is, would I need to go for a starter reflex wing for my first reflex glider such as the Ozone Roadster 2, Dudek Synthesis 2 etc, or given my past experience in paragliding, would it be too ambitious to consider wings such as the Paramania GTX, Ozone Speedster, ITV Billy etc, as a first reflex glider?

My intention for paramotoring would be flying local cross country, not competing.

Any thoughts or advice on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[Noe Chaparro]

Well, my thoughts would be to get the easiest glider to launch and land. That being said, not all reflex gliders are alike. Some are easier to inflate, some sink less requiring less thrust (better fuel economy). But in my opinion the difference between a beginner reflex and a "more advance" one is the how dynamic the glider is and efficiency more than speed. If you are just going to fly cross country, something like a Roadster 2 would be a great glider even for an experience PPG pilot. There is plenty of speed, its ridiculous easy to launch, there lots of flare authority when landing and a good amount of passive safety. An Ozone spider would be the best choice of all. A spider is a light weight version of the Roadster 2, making a bit more playful than the Roadster while still retaining an EnB certification. If you have a bit more extra money this would be a glider you would not out grow but yet allow you to progress in the sport faster because of how easy everything would be for you. Its a proven fact that the pilots with the easiest gear to use, fly the most..LOL

Cheers,

Noe

 

 

 

[Justin]

Hi Noe,

Thanks for your reply. That does make sense & the Roadster 2 is one glider I've particularly been looking at.

My biggest concerns would be ease of launching & landing, so if the Roadster 2/Spyder can offer that, along with a good cruising speed for XC, then it puts it on the top of my list!

I really appreciate your input, thanks again,

Justin

[Noe Chaparro]

You are so welcome. And Yes, the Roadster2/Spider should be in the dictionary under the phrase "easy launching and landing" LOL 

[aljken]

My advice would be to fly your free flight wing for much much longer (6 months plus depending on how much flying you're doing) then progress onto a more advanced reflex wing (I would actually advise you to get the speedster 2 or sirocco (or sirocco 2 - when it comes out)).

You'll be surprised at how irritating take off and landing is on a motor compared with free flight, and it's much easier on a free flight wing. However, you'll learn fast (if you get into motoring) and will be ready for a higher rated motor wing given your free flight experience. You also might not like motoring (coming from a free flight background) - so wait  a bit before you commit any more money in buying a wing. However you're free flight experience will be excellent, and you'll really understand so much more which would have taken you ages to learn.

[Justin]

Hi aljken,

Thanks for your input. That's pretty much what I was hoping to hear as it opens up a much bigger choice of future gliders.

As my intention would be to be mainly flying cross country, I would need a wing which could cruise at a good speed to cover some distance & be able to switch the motor off for thermalling, so would also need to have good slow speed handling & climbing efficiency. This is where I'd expect a higher rated wing to excel.

Having said all that, I have heard so many positives about the Roadster 2 with the added benefit of easy take offs & landings. It would be great if there is a wing out there that offers all of this.

As you've said though, I shall use my Mentor 3 to gain enough confidence & experience before I consider a reflex wing. 

Thanks again.

[aljken]

Hi Justin,

 

There's no reflex wing which really excels at thermalling and climbing compared to a free flight wing. They just don't have the same glide. Your M3 will be better than all the reflex ones we've talked about in this thread.

 

Thermalling with a paramotor isn't nearly as fun as with a free flight wing. Especially when it's really (thermic) strong. It's just not that fun having 40kg plus strapped to your back being thrown about in a strong thermal. I thought the same as you when I started, but quickly realised that paramotoring and paragliding are in many ways opposite spots!

If you want easy take-offs, the really lightweight wings are the easiest.

Cheers,

Alex.

[Justin]

Thank you Alex,

That's really useful advice & makes a lot of sense. I know what you mean about lightweight gliders launching easier. I also have an Ozone Ultralite & that thing will launch if you sneeze. Just a handful when the wind picks up as it just wants to rise up,  even if you pin it with the C risers as the wind just lifts the whole thing. I guess that shouldn't be a problem with paramotoring as conditions are different on the flat. 

I shall persevere with my Mentor 3. Thanks again for all your advice. I really appreciate it. 

Justin

[Hodders]

Do you know what kind of powered flying you want to do?

You have vastly more flying experience than I do, but buying an active wing that is just itching to throw a wing over and a barrel roll at the touch of a brake/throttle is not going to be the best choice if you want to enjoy relaxing XC.

My (humble) suggestion would be to talk to an instructor fly PPG for a bit and only then (if necessary) buy a wing.

[morgy]

If you would like any advice on the Ozone range of PPG wings feel free to give me a call... 

 

I came form a free flying back ground and love thermalling ridge soaring with my Mac Fly 250..  I would put money on you getting bored with your Mentor 3 when you want to start extending your XC flying.   Ask your self if it's a great thermal day would you rather go PG or PPG flying?  if your going to use your Paramotor when its high pressure benign conditions your better off with a smaller PPG wing to cover more distance.. if a mix of Ridge and thermal PPG buy bigger..  

I Like the Viper 4 for the lift, agility and efficiency but this will be to advanced, The Speedster 2 is a step down but still a great wing for all round flying, another step down would be the roadster 2, As your an experienced PG Pilot i think you will think this is heavy and not very agile when your trying to core a small thermal and will be upgrading very quickly. 

[Justin]

Many thanks for some sound advice morgy. 

I just want to initially use my Mentor 3 to get started. I was hoping that flying a wing I'm familiar with will have no hidden surprises when it comes to paramotoring. 

My main concern is what you've pretty much highlighted about which level of reflex wing I move on to after learning the basics on my Mentor 3. 

I'm sure the Roadster 2 would be a brilliant reflex wing to move up to, but I thought that if my current paragliding experience would help me to skip a level to say a Speedster/Speedster 2 without biting off more than I could chew. 

As you said, I'd rather do that than go for a Roadster & quickly feel the need for more agility/performance too soon. Obviously I don't want a wing that's going to hold me back either because I'm not confident enough on it. 

Thanks again for your advice. It's not going to be until next season when I plan to do my conversion course. 

Justin

[andrei_nath]

Justin, you have quite the same background as me, even more. When i started PPG i had the same fear/questions as you. I started with aprox 10 flights with a regulas PG(antea sky) and after that i bought a speedster. I have no regrets. With this ammount of experience behind i have no doubts that you can handle it. In my oppinion PPG is much more easier than PG(normal amateur PPG XC). I fly in the morning/evening... small/not at all thermic activity... it's really nice. PG on the other hand... pf... mountain thermals... you know... i saw that you fly in the alps... should be piece of cake.

Just my 50cent... i would not invest in a PG wing... i would buy a reflex one...

That along with a good mindset/training... and you'll be fine... How many hours did you fly/year?

Take it as an opinion/info... you know best....

[morgy]

I also came from a free flying background HG then PG then PPG, My first wing was the Paramania Fusion EN C... I then bought the Speedster when it came out and loved it... It would hold its own when on the Hill until it started to get scratchy. But when the wind got up I would be the only one flying with pilots grounded on there PG wings.. 

As i said you would get bored and upgrade from the R2 very quickly!! If you do go up a level make sure you put the hours in and fly it in light non thermic conditions and build up to your PG conditions tolerance... All reflex PPG wing will feel heavy compared to your PG wing so will take time to get used to the feel and handling.. 

I would say your more than welcome to come and test fly some wings but it may be to far to come and visit...   Are you close to annecy? If so PM me i may be able to help with a demo close to you with Jean mateos 

[Justin]

Thanks again morgy.

I may have confused a few people. I live in the U.K. not France. I've flown quite a few times in the Alps but on flying holidays not living there. Sorry for the confusion.

The advice you have given me has been really good. Very much appreciated & thanks for the offer of a test fly. I just need to sort the conversion first.

The more I've read into this thread the more I think I'm unlikely to do much thermal flying with a motor. As you said, when it's thermic I'll go paragliding. For this reason I will be looking at a PPG wing which offers good cruising performance for cross country flying. I'm probably unlikely to want to free fly a PPG wing either as I have the Mentor for that.

Cheers guys.

[Pedwarpimp]

Just seen this thread, what did you decide on Justin? And how you getting on with motoring?  

 

 I'm in the same boat as you were,  been PG for approx 7-8 years, with a few trips abroad when possible.  I'm currently on an Iota, and want to add PPG to allow me to get out more often.  

 

[Pedwarpimp]

Just seen this thread, what did you decide on Justin? And how you getting on with motoring?  

 

 I'm in the same boat as you were,  been PG for approx 7-8 years, with a few trips abroad when possible.  I'm currently on an Iota, and want to add PPG to allow me to get out more often.  

 

[Justin]

Hi,

sorry for the delay getting back to you. I've not sorted anything as yet. Still waiting to do the conversion course. With much debate I've decided I'm going to start off with my Nova Mentor 3 for the first few hours when I finally get sorted. I'm sure your Iota would be similar under power as the Mentor 3. I've been told the Mentor is quite good under power & as I'm familiar with it & it launches & lands easy, then it makes sense to me to start paramotoring with it. 

I'm guessing that after a few hours on the Mentor I could probably consider an intermediate ppg wing such as the Speedster. I shall keep you posted. Cheers. 

[Pedwarpimp]

Thanks for the reply Justin.

 

Yes  a friend of mine has flown his mentor 3 under power and said it was fine especially for thermalling.  It is an extra large so he would be withint eh normal flying weight range I believe.  I think it is also DGAC certified.   I was planning on flying an older Skywalk Chili 2 XL so I should be at or just over the top of the weight range with the motor.

Please do let me know how you get on and what you decide, (when you decide what to do) Hoping I can sort my conversion fairly soon.

 

 

 

[Dariuszk24]

All ozone paramotor wings are reall pleasure to take off and landings

Recommending speedster 1 or 2 for began.

[TONYPARAMOTOR]

just imagine wings are just like cars.they come big and they come small.different colors different safety features.all are different depending on the individual. have a demo with the wing.and if your ready to use a motor then use both. and go for the test drive.and if.if you want a ozone wing.then test more then one wing.. your the customer.you have the money. time will tell. ;0)

[MagMen]

Justin, I quite often paramotor with both my Mentor 3 and Gradient Nevada. I have a selection of reflex wings too but I often use the motor to get to the lift on thermal days rather than messing around on a hilltop hoping to connect. I only live a mile from a big PG site but there has been many a day where I have been engine off flying for an hour or so while no one on the hill has been able to connect. You are familiar with the Mentor so do your first flights with that and then get something like a Speedster to keep alongside the Mentor.

[Pedwarpimp]

I like the sound of that, Magmen, I've not heard to many say they will turn their engines off and thermal.   Hope I can/will enjoy the thermalling and staying up with engine off in the flat lands of Norfolk on those thermic  days the tow field don't run.  

 

 

[toycan]

For beginner OZONE SPYDER? is my first wing for paramotor ,

what Trim Fast speed ? 50 km/h)

 

THANKS !