poz

Just to clarify, he may gain the qualification while getting his PPL, but there is no obligation to fly a radio equipped aircraft or ever speak to ATC. Phil That's very true Phil, but a GA pilot would be pretty limited as to where he could fly and where he could land. Things aren't like they used to be when I first started flying 16 years ago. Nowadays, quite rightly so (in my opinion), fewer and fewer airfields are accepting non radio aircraft. We had a couple at my home airfield (Barton) and to be honest, they were a bit of a nightmare, especially on a sunny Sunday with 15 other aircraft in the circuit Dan

In some ways I think asking the GA qualified amongst us to comment on this subject is pointless because I challange anyone who has flown GA for any amount of time to say that airband comms is anything but a brilliant, useful tool and possibly a lifesaver. But having said that, the GA pilot basically has no option right from the off. There really isn't a choice. He has to get used to it, unlike the PPG pilot There lies the problem. I'm not the most confident person on the radio and I used to make myself talk much more than I needed to just to maintain the little confidence I had. I would transit airspace and request all sorts of clearances just for the hell of it to keep in practice. People tend to avoid doing what they don't feel confident about, unless they are forced to do it. One of the scariest parts of airband radio is knowing that everyone else on that frequency (inc all the pros) can hear your transmissions and therefore your possible F**k ups. Also, having to repeat what you have been advised/instructed word for word is extremely nerve racking. I can only imagine how much more difficult that would be with a screeming two stroke just behind you. I am definitely not creating an argument against the use of Air band comms, I agree 100%. I'm just trying to imagine why your typical PPG pilot might avoid it like the plague, and not being that confident myself, I'm not finding it difficult. However, if the XC pilot was prepared to give it a go, and sample the delight of an expert on the ground covering his arse and letting him know that he had closing traffic just out of sight, that pilot would not look back.........if you know what I mean Very interesting subject Norman Dan

I would love to start a club here in Southern Spain, as I fear that I will be flying off these lovely beaches all by myself If you are a paramotor pilot or a wannabe from the Costa Del Sol or you know someone that flies from the Costa Del Sol, please contact me. Thanks Dan

Not flying paramotors quite yet (another month to go). However, I cannot seem to stop myself imagining what it's going to be like and trying to find solutions to problems that I've not even encountered yet. (yes I know, very sad ) Anyway, coming from a GA background, I can't help thinking that I'm going to miss my ASI, I know I'll have a GPS to tell me my ground speed as I did in my fixed wing, but I was wondering whether anyone has used an Anemometer to get an airspeed reading. Together with a GPS ground speed reading the combination gives you a great idea of wind direction for landing. Having not even taken to the skies yet, I may have completely overlooked something important. If this is the case.....go easy on me Dan

Thanks for the advice and links. I've been looking at the Bulli-X and Flat Top's similar trike, but I'm not convinced that they'll work on really soft sand. Also, I've seen no reference on any website to suggest otherwise, only that they are designed for rough terrain. Will keep looking into it though. Cheers Dan

If anyone has a way to get it on utube, I'd love to see it. Cannot get BBC iplayer in Spain. Ta

Does anyone know if there are any trikes out there that can be launched/landed from a soft sandy beach? Ie one with very fat wheels maybe

I live in Spain and a few months ago my 5 yr old daughter had to give a blood sample (nut allergy) and they absolutely butchered her trying to get blood from her arm. In the end I had to intervine and stop it. It left her completely traumatised and me deaf in one ear for a good couple of hours. I was worried that the bad experience would leave her with a fear of giving blood. So, when the mobile blood bank came to our village I thought it would be a great opportunity to take her along, not to give blood but to watch me donate and see how painless it all is, when done correctly. Boy did I get a shock. They informed me that because I was living in the UK between years 1986 to 1998, my blood was not welcome due to the risk of CJD. I have to admit, I felt a strange sense of rejection. Still we helped ourselves to the flavoured milk on the way out

Thanks Mark & Phil for your valuable insight. Much appreciated. It would appear that I'm about to jump onto a steep learning curve. I hope if I fall off I remember to use my brakes and flare Dan

Thanks very much for all your advice. The main concern for me, is not lifting the weight, I have lots of experience with weights as I have been in the fitness industry as a personal trainer for over 20 years and in that time I have come across many situations with thousands of different people. However, funnily enough my experience hasn't spanned to, running across a field with nearly 40 kg on my shoulders and around 60kg of thrust pushing me forward (what am I thinking!!). Even though I have had a long career in the fitness industry, I am still learning new stuff each and every day, so I am really grateful, and also reassured by the advice I have just read in this post. I have a congenital problem with my lower back and have always needed to take special care of it. Thanks all. Poz

I've spent a few hours this week researching a local flying site. Problem is, I'm not doing my course until next month and therefore I'm finding places that I think look ideal, but at the moment, what do I know . I'd appreciate it if some of you more experienced paramotorists would have a look at the pictures of the 2 beach sites which are very close to each other, and 1 over view (all from Google Earth - bloody marvelous tool), and if possible, from photos, give your opinion of whether or not you think these sites look suitable, mainly from a space point of view. This beach is 5 minutes down the road from where I live in Marbella in Southern Spain. It's a great spot, but the down side, is that there is nobody here really paramotoring. No clubs, nothing organised at all. Therefore, once I have finished my 2 week course and bought my kit (likely to be a PAP Ros 1400 and a Dudek Synthesis), I'm going to be flying these sites all on my own right from the off, without any support, (ie: new sport, new equipment, new unknown site etc), the thought of which, quite frankly makes me a little nervous As I said I'm not sure if you can help just from a couple of pictures, but feel free to ask me anything. Also, is there anyway of posting the imagaes of this site directly under my text? Thanks Poz'>http://picasaweb.google.com/posnertour/FlyingSiteNrMarbella# As I said I'm not sure if you can help just from a couple of pictures, but feel free to ask me anything. Also, is there anyway of posting the imagaes of this site directly under my text? Thanks Poz

Has anyone had any back problems whilst paramotoring, or do you know anyone that has had any problems? It's a concern of mine and would really appreciate some feedback on the subject. Thanks Dan

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I may have over estimated the cost of paramotoring. I showed this post to my wife and she thinks that I put you guys up to it to appease her over the cost At the end of the day so many of my happiest memories to date are from my GA flying days and it was worth every penny. I am fully expecting that paramotoring will bring me similar memories and it will cost what it will cost.

Dan, you will probably find that even a brand new motor will carry the caveat that it is not certified for aviation use, and has no guarantee of airworthiness. Manufacturers also often say (as do many pilots) that you should not fly over anything that you would be unhappy to land on, unless with sufficient height to be able to glide to somewhere that you CAN land safely. An engine out should be a simple case of reassessing the most recent landing option that you considered, together with any new options that are now available. Make an appropriate choice and land safely. There is a current thread about a relatively new pilot that has had loads of forced landings, and hasn't yet encountered serious problems. I personally have had a couple of out of fuel episodes. Both cases where I underestimated the wind strength, and also a couple of mechanical failures of the type that I think you will find, most paramotorists accept as an occupational hazard. None of these was any more problematic than any other landing, the most difficult bit being the hike out of a large area of fields to where my wife could pick me up. This can I admit be something of a difficult mind set for someone with a GA background to come to terms with, but when you consider our flexibility in landing sites, you will soon realise that fear is not required. My personal feeling regarding your costs estimation, is that with good choices at the purchase stage, you are at least 100% over what I would think is reasonable. Remember that you would also pay a huge premium in GA flying to have 100% aircraft availability for your sole use. There is nothing to prevent you having a PPG syndicate, and defraying the costs that way. Good instruction may well save you some unpredictable costs in terms of broken props and damaged cage sections. Again, these are pretty de riguer in PPG circles and having a few bob spare for such eventualities is no bad thing. Here is to low flying costs (I sure as hell can't afford to fly the club Warrior at about £120 per hour wet). Phil You are absolutely right about the GA mind set. The thought of an engine out in the Cessna fills me with dread.

Here you are paying for the time of an instructor, not the cost of flying, so I would expect it to be comparable. That said, With a bit of pre-practice with a wing, you could probably be flying within 3 days, and an instructor might charge you £200 a day if you use your own kit Just a small point, on the one hand you say you can't compare GA with paramotoring, but that is exactly what you are choosing to do. Why is it scary? there are no 'lifed' components on a paramotor. Everything bar engine internals are visible, so a worst case scenario might be you would need to replace a crank, barrel and piston. An engine out on a paramotor is a non event. Many people land 'deadstick' as standard. You should always be assuming your engine might quit, and have a viable alternate landing spot. Nothing to scare you there then. It can be done quite easily. I was airborne well within that budget, and have only upgraded because I want to, not because I need to. Motor 2K, Wing £600, bits and bobs, £300. If you want the paramotoring equivalent of a Glasair or a Mooney, you will have to pay top dollar. Horses for courses. Well I'm hoping my Bailey will give me a couple of years service before any major mishap, so that is 200 plus hours. As in GA, I'd look to replace the engine not the whole kit, so £3000 ish over 200 hours (which if you are keen is not unreasonable) gives you £15 per hour. But that is a worst case scenario, assuming a complete engine swap at minimum time. It is far more likely to be a barrel and piston and maybe a handful of bearings after rather more hours. Insist on a wing test and report before purchase, and you'll get a porosity report. Together with general condition this will tell you if your investment is worth it. Take up tandem flying and split the costs again Not taken as criticism, happy to give my opinions. I've managed nearly 100 hours in my first years flying, here in the UK. A figure I never got close to in GA. I bought a motor for £2000 (ex demo) and a half decent wing off ebay for £600. I sold on after about 60 hours for £1500 and £400 respectively. So a total spend of £700, that's just under £12 an hour. I could have carried on flying on the kit probably for a couple of years, and not lost substantially more, bringing the cost down proportionately. Phil Hi Phil. Thanks for such a prompt and comprehensive reply. I believe that, to summerise, you are telling me that my figures are unnecessarily high and that paramotoring doesn't need to be anywhere near as expensive as I have calculated, provided that, like yourself, the pilot has a good understanding of how a 2 stroke engine is put together, and knows how and feels confident enough to service it. Also, that he is willing to take a chance on used equipment with no accurate record of history because worse case scenario you get an engine out which "is a non event". (Does this not depend on where and when you get an engine out? ) The fact that you manage to fly 100 hrs per year is fantastic! Well above what I understand most PPG pilots manage. Well done you! That is the sort of figure that I am hoping to achieve in Southern Spain. Are there many pilots clocking up these hours? I have to say that although I really do appreciate your take on the costs involved, I'm not sold on all of your arguments simply because I know very little about the equipment involved and cannot ever envisage a time when an engine out, at any point, will amount to a non event. If I am proved wrong on that one, I will be a very happy chappy With regards to the training aspect. I agree that once I fully understand all the aspects of kiting a wing then it is simply down to practice, practice, practice. However, cutting back on the instructor based training experience would not be my idea sensible economising. I'm a slow but methodical learner. Once again thanks for your take on it. Probably, once I learn how to do it, I will understand more about where you're coming from. Dan

Being new to paramotoring I've been trying to work out what the true cost of this form of flying is going to be. The only reference I ever seem to read with regard to the cost of paramotoring is how cheap a paramotors cost to run in terms of fuel consumption only. "...it only burns 3 litres/hour. Costs nothing!" etc I come from a GA background where I was part of a flying syndicate of 20 members, flying a very old Cessna 150 (2 seater) and we all contributed a standing monthly sum of £35 (£700), which covered insurance, parking, maintenance and long term costs such as repainting, re-upholstering. Then we paid £35 per hour (engine on to engine off), split roughly 50/50 to cover the cost of fuel (approx 23l/hour) and an engine fund (engines lsast approx 2500 hrs). This system worked incredibly well. We never had to put our hand in our pocket to cover large unexpected bills because there was always a healthy bank balance. I understand that paramotoring is seen as a much cheaper form of aviation. However, I bought my share in the Cessna for £1500 and 11 years later I sold it on for.....£1500. Cost of ownership £0. This is completely normal. The aircraft stopped depreciating after it was around 10 years old, back in the 80's. Many people actually make money on their share (some loose depending on the urgency of the need to sell ). My 40 hr, 3 week, PPL training course, (undertaken at a British school in Florida), all in cost me £1995, this was in 1994. The same course today costs £2995, but is now a 45 hr course. The course I have just booked, together with accomodation is costing £2000. Not cheap! Once completed, according to my research, the kit that I am looking to purchase: PAP Ros 1400, with maybe a Dudek Synthesis + reserve, helmet clothing etc etc is going to cost me in the region of £7000. So, so far we're up to £9000. Yes I know I will be getting new kit for this money and a new GA aircraft would be around £60k+, however, in my humble opinion you cannot compare the two. The main reason is that a GA aircraft is governed by incredibly strict maintenance rules. The owner unless CAA qualified cannot touch it. Therefore the history of a GA aircraft is logged, by law, and therefore almost guarenteed accurate. In contrast there appears to be no rules whatsoever about the maintenace schedule of a paramotor and therefore I would feel quite nervous about buying second hand. Having looked at various adverts for second hand equipment, non of them seem to have flown for more than 10 hrs! "Like new", Really? Prove it. You can't because there is no legal requirement to log the history of the machine, not even the hours. SCARY!! So, I would only feel completely comfortable if I were to buy new. The more I look into this, the more I realise that I'm going to need to be very creative whilst justifying all of this to my missus, whom I have led to believe that the whole thing will cost around £3k, because intitially that's what I thought. Anyway, although I look forward to any responses and opinions on the subject of costs, my main reason for this post is because I would like to approach my paramotoring, financially, the same way as I approached my GA flying. In other words I need to understand the costs involved, such as: Approximately, how many hours can I expect from a paramotor engine, assuming a programme of regular maintenance is strictly adhered to? Is really good fully sythetic 2 stroke oil a cost factor that needs to be taken into consideration? In your experience how much per hour should I budget for engine maintenance and eventual replacement? Same for the wing. All the 2nd hand wings I see on the web, advertise number of hours flown (usually below 20hrs - really?) and not the number of hours it's been exposed to the damaging sun. I've guestimated some figures below and invite comments as to their accuracy: Engine replacement fund (Pap Ros 1400) with reserve: after approx 500 hrs £5000 £10hr Wing replacement after approx 150 hrs (I live in Spain, lots of damaging UV) £2300 £15hr Fuel + Oil £6hr Maintenance (plugs etc) £2hr Contingencies (there must be other hidden costs - bottles whiskey for farmers etc) £2hr Total £35 per hour Obviously having no real experience of the costs, I am sure that my figures will be shredded by the wisened of you out there. But, that figure of £35 per hour seems to be a very familiar one from my GA days, except that I rarely flew alone in my spam can and always cost shared, and, maybe suprisingly to some, my completely accurate cost per hour over 11 years and just over 600 hrs flying worked out at £23.50 per hour. Just to head off any sensitive egos out there, my post is not in any way making any critisism toward my newly chosen hobby, I cannot wait to get going and in so many ways that I can think of, paramotoring has so many advantages over GA flying as a form of being in the air...that's why I have chosen it. Even if my figures are accurate, I do happen to think that that £35 per hour is a very reasonable price for a great hobby. FYI: The time spent flying per year for your average UK PPL is 47 hours - Not much, but I bet it's a few more than the average PPG pilot in the UK. I live in southern Spain and fortunately the climate here will allow me to fly most days , which is why it's paramotoring for me, and also one of the reasons I need to address the cost, because unlike many of the residents of southern Spain, I certainly am not loaded Dan

Hello everyone. Great to have such a wealth of info and experience all on one website. Having lived in Spain for the past 2 years with a NEED to be airborne, no airfields nearby, lots of sandy beaches and very limited financial resources, it didn't take me long to arrive at my decision to give paramotoring a go. I have a fixed wing PPL (600hrs) and initially thought (similar to other ppl's) with my flying experience and the fact that this form of aviation legally requires no licence of formal training that somehow I would be at an advantage over other newbies. Almost a bit of a superiority complex I'm sad to admit. Anyway, two days paragliding training last year soon sorted that little misunderstanding out! I have booked on a 12 day training course with Alex Ledger's Skyschool in North East Spain in September and absolutely cannot wait. So, that's me. Now for a couple issues that I'm hoping someone can relate to and offer some advice. I have always had back problems and I have to admit to being a little nervous when I read on the forum about PPG training and running up and down the field with 30+kg strapped to my back. Any advice on this subject would be appreciated. Next. Kit. Like all newbies, I am concerned about getting the 'right' equipment. I have the manufacturer PAP 10 minutes down the road from me and my logic tells me that it makes sense to buy a Pap paramotor because support and spare parts would be on my doorstep as opposed to UK manufacturer where any servicing could potentially be a shipping nightmare. Any advice on a) that notion and b) experiences with Pap equipment. Incidently, I am 6' 1" and around 84kg. For me, in order of importance as far as the motor goes: Noise - I really do not want to upset folk on the ground (not interested in a 4 stroke - too heavy) Power - The more power, the more relaxed/quiet the motor in the cruise? Weight - For reasons back related. Reliability/Durability - Pap any good for this? Finally, any newbie advice would be welcome and appreciated Thanks for reading Dan