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Power or Clutch? What option do you prefer?


GeertH
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Hi Guys,

As you may have read I'm in the market for my first 2nd hand paramotor. I already own a Ozone VIBE which I will use the coming season wile I progress.

For your info my weight is 83kg thats about 13 stone.

Now in the budget range that I have I have found 3 paramotors for sale that Intrest me. All of them are within 200£ of each other.

-Fly Castellucio Quixo (Fly-100, elec starter and clutch)

- Fly Products Race C (vitorazzi 100, elec starter and clutch)

- Fly Products Kompress (elec starter, lots of power)

Now The first two would have sufficient power to get me of the ground in a more or less comfortable way. The Kompress however would probably lift me up as a rocket. So the last one has more than enough power but no clutch. So what would you do, sacrifice the power for the luxury of a clutch of or go for all the power that you can get an perfect those launches.

Best regards

Geert

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Hi Guys,

As you may have read I'm in the market for my first 2nd hand paramotor. I already own a Ozone VIBE which I will use the coming season wile I progress.

For your info my weight is 83kg thats about 13 stone.

Now in the budget range that I have I have found 3 paramotors for sale that Intrest me. All of them are within 200£ of each other.

-Fly Castellucio Quixo (Fly-100, elec starter and clutch)

- Fly Products Race C (vitorazzi 100, elec starter and clutch)

- Fly Products Kompress (elec starter, lots of power)

Now The first two would have sufficient power to get me of the ground in a more or less comfortable way. The Kompress however would probably lift me up as a rocket. So the last one has more than enough power but no clutch. So what would you do, sacrifice the power for the luxury of a clutch of or go for all the power that you can get an perfect those launches.

Best regards

Geert

Power, you don't have to use all of it but its nice to have when you are in sinking air and for nil wind take off's.

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Hi

I think you meant clutch or drive belt? :?:

Many units like PAP and the smaller H&E use clutch. Advantages are no moving prop on the ground when ground handling the wing with engine running or when warming up and you can land with the engine running in nil wind without being pushed along. Don't get complacent when running the engine on the ground, if you knock against the throttle the prop will instantly spin :shock:

Disadvantages; The reduction units (gearbox if you like) are prone to blow seals and leak greese and at £250 each they are not cheap however you can get them refurbished. When engine off or on tickover for landing the prop windmils (goes arround in the forward airspeed) so if you fall over on landing you are more likely to damage the prop when compared to belt drive models where the prop is stopped when engine off.

Advantage of belt drive is that during take off in marginal conditions you can get the wing steady overhead before starting your engine reducing the risk of damaging the prop if you get pulled over by a gust. But of course you will need electric start for that, tut! more choices.

I have got two paramotors one reduction drive and one belt drive with electric start. Now my ground handling has improved I preferre the belt drive. My opinion tho, choice is yours.

Hope that helps.

Whitters.

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Forgot to mention; as for power i agree with Pete. My underpowered clutch drive is also very unforgiving if the take off technique goes wrong. Flying at 90 to 100% throttle all the time does take its toll (I am 100kg).

With your weight the Smaller engines will use 4 ltrs of fuel an hour the larger 5 ltrs maybe a bit more. Don't believe the manufacturers claims. Fuel tank size may also be an issue. Large engine small tank may give you less than 90 mins endurance.

Whitters.

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Log on to the Black Devil yahoo groups and look at the number of questions about maintenance issues. It is very well supported by a guy in the States called Alex Varv but thank god because it needs to be. Read well and then make your own conclusions. All motors have issues but some considerably more than others.

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@all of you

thank you for the very good advice! This forum is really great and so are you guys

@Fanman

Thank you for your post altough I din't like reading it! I will certainly logon to the Yahoo group and look around. Your e-mail just prevented me from placing "the order". Do you or any other reader have personal expirience with the Black Devil?

what would you recommend then?

I'm a bit desperate now. So many choices but what is the right one (if there is any)

Best regards

A confused Geert

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Geert

I fly a Black Devil in a PAP1250. I can say that it is a popular choice of engine for Paramotoring.

It is a powerful engine and I have no problem with power even at 110kg.

I have had no problems, it starts every time, and spares from Corsair are easy to obtain.

You will find bad and good experiences with most of the motors used but, in my opinion, the Black devil is a good choice.

I can only speak from personal experience though which I find is the best way!

Eddie

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Another advantage of belt drive, over clutch and gearbox set-ups, is the immediate delivery of power. I'm told you can experience a little lag from tickover to power on with the clutch. Not as desireable when low flying or when you need a quick burst of thrust to help prevent a dumpy landing, when thermic. (or rotor)

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With your weight the Smaller engines will use 4 ltrs of fuel an hour the larger 5 ltrs maybe a bit more. Don't believe the manufacturers claims. Fuel tank size may also be an issue. Large engine small tank may give you less than 90 mins endurance.

Whitters.

Are you not getting as long on a litre with the Simmo as you did on the 120 Rich ?

The chaps I fly with use 125 Ross, WERE 3 stone lighter than me and using a 26 wing s the same size as mine. Inspite of me using a 200 Simmo our fuel burn rate was the same. And we were doing the same speed. My best rate has been 3.3 ltrs/ hour and rarely use more than 4ltrs/hour unless doing loads of touch and goes or cranking and banking.

Look forward to meassuring again soon, now that I've dropped 2 stone. Rate of climb will be even better than 450 ft/ min I reckon. 12 kilos of my blubber was like a tank and a half of fuel. Crickey !

Dave

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Another advantage of belt drive, over clutch and gearbox set-ups, is the immediate delivery of power. I'm told you can experience a little lag from tickover to power on with the clutch. Not as desireable when low flying or when you need a quick burst of thrust to help prevent a dumpy landing, when thermic. (or rotor)

Are you alright Dave? Unwell? Overworked or something? You didn't even mention the Flat-top :D

For my money anything with a Simonini engine. I think the top80 is too small for you. Great if you just fly local short hops with no kit. Not so good fully kitted for longer flight, although it will probably be economical.

My clutch engine is a H&E 120. It has served me very well indeed but it was not until I got the Fresh breeze with the Simonini engine that I realised how much harder getting off the ground fully kitted fully fueled was. Both have nearly 20ltr fuel tanks.

It depends on what type of flying you want to do.

Whitters.

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With your weight the Smaller engines will use 4 ltrs of fuel an hour the larger 5 ltrs maybe a bit more. Don't believe the manufacturers claims. Fuel tank size may also be an issue. Large engine small tank may give you less than 90 mins endurance.

Whitters.

Are you not getting as long on a litre with the Simmo as you did on the 120 Rich ?

The chaps I fly with use 125 Ross, WERE 3 stone lighter than me and using a 26 wing s the same size as mine. Inspite of me using a 200 Simmo our fuel burn rate was the same. And we were doing the same speed. My best rate has been 3.3 ltrs/ hour and rarely use more than 4ltrs/hour unless doing loads of touch and goes or cranking and banking.

Look forward to meassuring again soon, now that I've dropped 2 stone. Rate of climb will be even better than 450 ft/ min I reckon. 12 kilos of my blubber was like a tank and a half of fuel. Crickey !

Dave

Wow, well done on the weight loss Dave.

I am burning exactly 4 ltrs an hour on my 120 which was 4.3 before it was re-built.

I am using 5.2 ltrs an hour on the FB. I havn't tried to adjust the carb on FB so might be able to improve that later when its done 20 hours or so. I preferre to be a bit rich and save the engine.

I have flown both engines a lot this past month and have not used speed bar at all. Measurements are current and accurate.

I would like to test the pop off pressures with you sometime.

Whitters

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No worries for the pop off test Rich. let's meet for a fly somewhere. Only takes a little time and patience if adjustment is needed.

Be interesting to fly each others wings and see what that does for the fuel burn.

Flat-Top ? What's that ? :roll: Just ordering my new one. And no. The old one aint worn out ! :wink: for sale

Dave

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well, now you dont get that offer every day!.

but unless the flat top is that good that it can make my 10's turn into 20's i can still only stretch to 2500!!!

not to mention 200 quid in fuel to get there and back! lol.

youl have to be quick though....ive seen a lovely KTM for winter!! :):)

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... completely topic hijacked!!

but no not a big thumper... ive had them all, last one was the 530 excr

going lightweight this time i think ive seen a 250 4t with a 350 conversion...perfect for "rock climbing""

unless you change your mind of course dave....its a good offer.....enables you to get your new one.....gets one more flat top owner to spread the good news about how great FT's are... perhaps you could get mr dell to subsidise your new one on that basis!!! :wink::wink::wink:

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