Jump to content

PMC Instructor Course


norman
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 59
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

FlyParamaniaWing.gif

We are running an instructors course that takes place in the UK and France during March. We have candidates and ab-initio students for the first course sufficient to fully occupy one Panel Examiner. We are considering expanding the course sufficient to occupy a second PE. To do this we will need another two to four instructor candidates. Our Panel Examiners are Piers Dent and Paul Haxby.

If you feel that you would like to register your interest for March or for in the year, please get in touch. yossarian22@mac.com

Background - CISM

The course starts with a standalone three day classroom session which covers the Core Instructor Skills Module. This is based around teaching and learning theory and includes plenty of hands on instructional and presentation practice. The module is residential and self catering on a communal basis. This first stage is separated from the flying by an interval to help people manage their time off work and keep home absence duration to a minimum.

Flying

20090123-bdnhdupq9xfct5mniee8eampym.jpg

France is the venue for the flying part of the course. It lasts two weeks and will include around 20-25 hours in the air - weather permitting. Our Panel Examiners have developed a syllabus that will challenge the candidates and significantly raise both their standard of flying and confidence.

Prerequisite for PMC Candidate Instructors

A minimum of 70 Hours logged PPG (Log book verification). Twenty five hours paragliding may contribute to that figure and consideration will be given to those who have flying experience in other diciplines on an individual basis.

  • Passed a flying test and been able to clearly demonstrate handling skills to a 'good average' standard.
    Have completed a brief written resume on why they wish to teach.
    Have completed the Application form and paid appropriate fees.
    Have an Airworthy Paramotor with Wing, Reserve and personal flying clothing and equipment.
    A mobile Phone ready to use in local area.
    Appropriate Insurance in place before the course begins - proof of Insurance required.

  • After conversation with Piers:
    If we receive applications from candidates who fall short of the requirements above but have the talent, motivation and determination to hold their own and successfully complete the instructors course, they may submit their application stating hours and experience to the email address provided for forwarding to Piers and Paul for assessment.
    Clearly there will be minimums and in this situation prospective candidates can expect to be orally examined and flight tested to ensure that the 'walk matches the talk.' The objective is to include rather than exclude as fixed 'gate' figures can be too 'broad brush' and miss the promising.

Costs will be published in due course, we are awaiting quote returns for accommodation. Rest assured that the cost of the course will be competitive. France offers a better weather factor and a pleasing environment in which to train. I think there is a chance that the social element will be enhanced as well.

The first course starts with the CISM running from the 6th-8th March (Fri-Sun) and the flying commencing in France from the 16th - 29th March.

para.jpg

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alan,

After consideration we have modified that hours requirement to reflect the benefit felt by other experience. Paragliding is a close cousin and the experience is closely related and relevant. Equally the airmanship and technical residuals that are present from other aeronautical diciplines have an experience contribution that count for something.

The course itself adds considerably to the competance and confidence that the candidate instructor emerges with. I would suggest that a balance of experience has value.

PM sent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just curious about the instructors course, i was under the impression you didnt need a qualification to teach so there is no certification at the end of it? or there is a certification? if so which body is it from and what value does it hold?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leoibb,

You are right, there is no certificating authority. Not for the BHPA or the PMC.

We will issue a certificate on successful completion to certify that our candidates have qualified to our syllabus - just like the BHPA does.

We are moving from a situation where there is no qualification (within the PMC) to one where there is - not just a piece of paper but an intense course of training. What matters is what emerges from the other end of that process, not the piece of paper of course. This is a responsible move and it prepares us for the day when the free form structure of paramotoring may be required to change. Teaching to no syllabus with untutored instructors is not an ideal situation however legal it may be. This is part of an evolutionary process.

You are right, what value does the course have might is the better question. The best value that can be created given our resources - Piers, Paul and whatever I can offer from my previous experience as a flying instructor and trainer. Simon has gained considerable experience over the last eighteen months and when he has completed the course he will be making his input too. It has taken many months to put this together - we started from scratch to build something tailored to paramotoring rather than adapted from paragliding.

The final arbiter will be the customer - the course candidates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i see , just curious , in some countries you must have a licence to fly the paramotor apparently? if this is the case then following there format of training and instruction in paramotoring would put the could be instructor ahead for if the law does change. Then would the system be very similar to other countries that have applied this?

Or do an instructors course abroad, if there is one that does issue such a certification?

Its one thing to teach paramotoring to individuals but to teach people to teach when there is no real structure legally on paper in this country, then does that not open it up to a lot of legalities if things were to go wrong with said potential instructors?

I read it like this. i will teach you to teach but i dont have no legal format on how to do it.

i aint questioning the quality of your training or the education of the teachers because i know they will be top of the tree in what they do. but we all know that were there is a blaim there is a claim so the wording of it would worry me a little, it needs a or some governing body to take the blaim if owt came back.

maybe i am just too cautious and fuss too much lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Leoibb,

No, I think your instincts are sound. One of the motivators for thoroughness is the spectre of court action if we don't get the system comprehensive and right. Our lawyers will advise us and we will do all we can to minimise exposure in the same way that anyone needs to when they teach and operate an adventurous sport enterprise.

Either way nothing comes close to the exposure you face if you train off your own bat with no formal course behind you, no support from more experienced people and no defined teaching or student records system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is there no way one could do this course qithout having the said hours of flying? i am asking really because altho i aint too interested in teaching, i am interested in knowledge and the course would i feel benefit most people, the way i see it is you can never know enough or think you are experienced enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is there no way one could do this course without having the said hours of flying? i am asking really because although i ain't too interested in teaching, i am interested in knowledge and the course would i feel benefit most people, the way i see it is you can never know enough or think you are experienced enough.

If you wish for more knowledge then talk to an instructor and explain in which field (no pun intended) you you would like further information

For the price of this course you could get some quality one on one time with an instructor, anyway what are you unsure about or want to know more about?

Pete b

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

well i just feel if there is a course available in what i do then why not do it? maybe i might know a lot of it but we only retain a little amount of information so it would be good to be told again, apart from that if there is a licence maybe coming up then it will put me in front and on the ladder ready for it.

ive always been one that likes to learn from the best and be the best at what i do, and you can only gain that by learning listening and learning.

altho i aint motivated by the thought of being an instructor it maybe somethin in the future which i may do, who knows?

but the motivation at the moment is for my own personal gain,

im gonna just touch on a point about the hours required, it is said that there is an amount of hours flying to be considered? well my question is this?

if a person gains his say fifty hours by flying for four hours a time? that would give him aprox 12 take offs and 12 landings yes?

now then if a person has only done 15 hours flying but has been made up of half hour flights yes? then that would give him 30 take offs and 30 landings? so my question would be who has the most experience? in the air is easiest and safest yes? it is on the ground were the dangers are mostly take offs and landings.

so the hours one has is not a true reflection of experience is it? one needs to know how they was built up and in what conditions and other things yes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well i just feel if there is a course available in what i do then why not do it? maybe i might know a lot of it but we only retain a little amount of information so it would be good to be told again, apart from that if there is a licence maybe coming up then it will put me in front and on the ladder ready for it.

ive always been one that likes to learn from the best and be the best at what i do, and you can only gain that by learning listening and learning.

altho i aint motivated by the thought of being an instructor it maybe somethin in the future which i may do, who knows?

but the motivation at the moment is for my own personal gain,

im gonna just touch on a point about the hours required, it is said that there is an amount of hours flying to be considered? well my question is this?

if a person gains his say fifty hours by flying for four hours a time? that would give him aprox 12 take offs and 12 landings yes?

now then if a person has only done 15 hours flying but has been made up of half hour flights yes? then that would give him 30 take offs and 30 landings? so my question would be who has the most experience? in the air is easiest and safest yes? it is on the ground were the dangers are mostly take offs and landings.

so the hours one has is not a true reflection of experience is it? one needs to know how they was built up and in what conditions and other things yes?

I agree with you on the way pilots get their hours in but there is a lot more to it than take offs landings and the easy part of flying,

If you contact Norman i am sure that after a good conversation with him or one of the panel examiners it will be come apparent if you (or any one else) would be suitable or not for this course.

Pete b

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Copied from the start of this thread

**After conversation with Piers:

If we receive applications from candidates who fall short of the requirements above but have the talent, motivation and determination to hold their own and successfully complete the instructors course, they may submit their application stating hours and experience to the email address provided for forwarding to Piers and Paul for assessment.

Clearly there will be minimums and in this situation prospective candidates can expect to be orally examined and flight tested to ensure that the 'walk matches the talk.' The objective is to include rather than exclude as fixed 'gate' figures can be too 'broad brush' and miss the promising.**

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you were synical then,

You could argue that self declared instructor/examiners, teaching want to be instructors will subsequently seek regulation to justify their expense/advantage.

Result is end of the last bastion of freedom of a very simple form of powered flying and more expense for all the sensible folk out there and no effect on the loons who will carry on regardless.

I understand your commercial attitude but fail to follow the 'moral', (if that is the right word) attitude.

On what basis (apart from good business) is this deemed to be necessary / desirable?

I would agree that a sport is best off being self regulating, If it needs to be changed from its present form. as is the BGA (British Gliding association) but would also say that since Europe (EASA) has been involved with gliding the costs have literally soared (pun intended) and with absolutely no safety reason on which to justify the expense, it is just for beaurocracy.

Leave it as it is

J

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you were synical then,

You could argue that self declared instructor/examiners, teaching want to be instructors will subsequently seek regulation to justify their expense/advantage.

Hi johnyev, thanks for the comment. I will try and enlarge on your points.

Yes you could argue and successfully in my view that the blind shouldn't lead the blind. That is not what we are suggesting. The backbone of any training structure is its instructors and their training is absolutely key to the generation of high standards. Ours are being trained by two of the better if not the best and most experienced instructors in the country. They have attended instructors courses with either the BHPA or the BMAA (when they were offering courses) and have been training for years full-time.

From all the conversations that I have had during this process I can tell you that there is ZERO desire to get involved either with trying to dominate the PPG scenery nor encourage legislation. That is for others to pursue, we want to aviate, explore and strike out on expeditions.

Result is end of the last bastion of freedom of a very simple form of powered flying and more expense for all the sensible folk out there and no effect on the loons who will carry on regardless.

I believe that it is generally accepted now that the 'freedom' we enjoy will last as long as we are prepared to properly administer ourselves. There never was a good case for encouraging people to follow a do it yourself route with PPG. The risks as I am sure you will agree are considerable while you trial and error yourself into the air and the fallout from having unenlightened individuals dangling beneath their flying machines wandering at will around the country are simply unacceptable for the rest of us who use the airspace.

Expense? After your basic training no-one is compelled to continue spending money on training. There will always be those however that see further training as both fun and insurance as well as a joy as they strive for excellence. PPG is not expensive, particularly when you compare it to other forms of aviation. I am all for choice.

I understand your commercial attitude but fail to follow the 'moral', (if that is the right word) attitude.

On what basis (apart from good business) is this deemed to be necessary / desirable?

I don't see our move as being a 'commercial' one. We need trained instructors to define and raise the standard of our training. This is necessary to ensure that we can find reasonable and comprehensive insurance. This in turn is also a vital move to protect the individuals who want to teach and pass on their skills.

In other flying disciplines there are club instructors who do not charge for their services, why not PPG? These guys fly at the weekend when their day job provides the time. Their presence relieves any full time instructors giving them a break during a busy summer. They might not want to commit to a full time instructors role but revel in helping others whilst increasing their experience.

I would agree that a sport is best off being self regulating, If it needs to be changed from its present form. as is the BGA (British Gliding association) but would also say that since Europe (EASA) has been involved with gliding the costs have literally soared (pun intended) and with absolutely no safety reason on which to justify the expense, it is just for beaurocracy.

I have talked recently with a colleague who glides seriously and has the same view as you do wrt EASA. He glides (as did I some time ago) and laments the bureaucracy and its inevitable financial burden. All our courses are starting out with the designed intention of keeping the cost down - it is a guiding principle for very good reasons.

Leave it as it is.

We would love to, unfortunately like the BHPA and others, we can't. We would be far too exposed in a courtroom and ill prepared for what may be coming, albeit slowly if we do the right thing early and get organised.

Thanks again for the input J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

UPDATE

After conversation with Piers we have decided to restrict the first course to five Student Instructors and four ab-initio/early solo pilots. This is to ensure that the team are all accommodated in the same place and that the numbers and logistics are manageable. I am running the CISM at Ashbury and Piers will run the flying phase from Airvault, France.

20090208-jgddm2ahix56xafudm97e9wrgs.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have read this thread with some interest.

The BHPA have a recognised background when it comes to paragliding. I will not recite their history but readers are quite capable of researching their heritage themselves. The majority of the principles remain the same in relation to powered and non powered paragliding, which allows them to call on their experience when it comes to FLPA matters (or whatever it is called nowadays).

It is no secret that the CAA call on the BHPA when it comes to accident investigation, to investigate and report on matters, probably due to their history and wealth of knowledge, they are considerd the nations experts.

What pedigree does the author of the PMC syllabus have? And who was the editor?

You are clearly an advocate for the PMC way Norman, what is your paramotoring history?

I have been to most, if not all of the UK paramotoring gatherings, unfortionately I an yet to meet you still though.

Regards

felius

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The BHPA have a recognised background when it comes to paragliding. I will not recite their history but readers are quite capable of researching their heritage themselves. The majority of the principles remain the same in relation to powered and non powered paragliding, which allows them to call on their experience when it comes to FLPA matters (or whatever it is called nowadays).

THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WITH AS MUCH EXPERIANCE AS THERE IS IN THE BHPA

It is no secret that the CAA call on the BHPA when it comes to accident investigation, to investigate and report on matters, probably due to their history and wealth of knowledge, they are considerd the nations experts.

WHO ELSE IS THERE

What pedigree does the author of the PMC syllabus have? And who was the editor?

MORE THAN ONE

You are clearly an advocate for the PMC way Norman, what is your paramotoring history?

I have been to most, if not all of the UK paramotoring gatherings, unfortionately I an yet to meet you still though.

SO HAVE I, SO HAVE WE MET??

Not shouting with the caps, just to stand out.

Pete Baldwin

Nationals last three years

Pie n Peas every time

Lemming member

PMC Member

BHPA SPHG Full Pilot

Tip to Tip Pilot

And many more flyins

:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have read this thread with some interest.

Hi felius,

Thanks for your thoughtful and considered post. I will try and answer your questions and pose a few of my own.

The BHPA have a recognised background when it comes to paragliding. I will not recite their history but readers are quite capable of researching their heritage themselves. The majority of the principles remain the same in relation to powered and non powered paragliding, which allows them to call on their experience when it comes to FLPA matters (or whatever it is called nowadays).

It's clear that you have a high opinion of the BHPA and some loyalty too which is admirable. I am not that familiar with it nor do I have the energy or inclination to pitch any animosity in its general direction. In fact I have come to respect the expertise that has been developed within by devotees who form some of the central characters. They are doubtless fine aviators and cracking company.

But... for me the BHPA doesn't represent paramotoring, it is clear from their words and actions that PPG is a tack on, an adjunct to their primary concern which is and has always been Hangliding and paragliding. It is written all over their website, their literature and their public attitudes.

It seems to me (and others) that their attraction to PPG revolves around the desire to dominate the sport and retain what amounts to a monopoly of control in all things 'ripstop nylon'. It is a commercial driver, not one evolved to benefit members.

This may be because they see a golden future in PPG as new designs and materials shrink the size and weight of the paramotor and increase its performance. These future machines will suit paraglider pilots very well as they can climb unaided off their hills and make it to cloud-base in their usual and preferred un-powered manner. The BHPA wants control for that coming day in my opinion.

From listening to friends who know the BHPA very well I gather that they have structured their operations to suit their established heirachy and developed a form of closed shop that places significant obstacles in the way of those who wish to start a club or school. They have auto-certified a tranche of their senior instructors who have little if any PPG flying experience - a brave move if they intend to fly and instruct the discipline but probably an internal move to polish their statistics.

It is no secret that the CAA call on the BHPA when it comes to accident investigation, to investigate and report on matters, probably due to their history and wealth of knowledge, they are considered the nations experts.

Agreed, for the reasons above they are the natural candidate for this duty. No-one else has their focused expertise, reporting system or bureaucracy in place. In fact - there is no-one else period who the CAA can go to for matters 'ripstop nylon' is there? :lol:

What pedigree does the author of the PMC syllabus have? And who was the editor?

You will find all the information you need if you look for it on this website. Regulars here know the basis on which our system is being generated and who has oversight of all matters that relate to PPG flying. Until we release our manuals and training system to our members I regard your questioning as... just a little intrusive. Please take no offence at that remark, I have no idea who I am talking to and therefore the background and motives of the individual.

You are clearly an advocate for the PMC way Norman, what is your paramotoring history?

Very little which is why ALL PPG flying related material is being vetted and edited by experts... at my request. The instructors course flying element has been wholly generated by Piers, I have written the CISM using my own experiences as a flying instructor and nontech skills trainer plus a variety of different reference sources for material and inspiration. The PPG1/2 syllabus has been jointly developed by myself, Piers and Paul. I built the skeleton, they contributed to the structure, it is still in the closing stages of completion.

I have been to most, if not all of the UK paramotoring gatherings, unfortunately I an yet to meet you still though.

:lol: And you are hardly likely to looking at my striking rate for PPG flying over the last year and a half. I don't mean to be flippant but my work takes me away for much of the time and the balance of my time in the UK tends to be devoted to my family.

The territory that you occupy when you take to your PPG doesn't differentiate between craft. The rules that you adhere to are there for all who tread the airspace and have been established for some time. I earn my living within that domain and have done so for over thirty years at both high and low levels. If I have anything to offer then it will be judged by its quality, not by the badge I wear nor the claims I make. The people I have collaborated with in the creation of our manuals are about the best you can get in the game. As well as being very experienced they are committed to the sport. Over the collaboration Piers has become a good and trusted friend, I have had less contact with Paul but it is clear that in all matters we have discussed, we are on the same page.

I wonder if I might produce a quote from someone I have come to admire for his open heart and mind to mention nothing of his flying skills. You might do well to read his words and ponder on them as they illustrate my attitudes to flying in this context very well.

I am sure that the fact that Sully, the Captain, was a proficient glider pilot played a major contribution to the happy outcome. It is not just about the landing flare, but the ability to think quickly balancing the options of landing fields whilst gliding. This is what you have to do constantly when flying low on a sailplane. PPG pilots who routinely switch their engine off high and glide through their landing approach also make for more proficient pilots, better prepared for the next engine failure. Simon Harding from Kent recently suffered a bird strike on his Bailey 110 and lost his propeller. The philosophy of "never, never, never relying on your engine when paramotoring" is well worth subscribing to.

Michel

Perhaps you recognise the man and his words. ;)

Flying of all kinds overlaps substantially and many of the skills are portable between disciplines. Nothing however makes up for the fact that the individual machines in their handling are unique as often are and the skills required to fly them. Lack of training and complacency kill just as effectively in a sailplane as they do under a Dudek wing or within a Pitts Special. The skillset used to generate training material for pilots and instructors are also portable.

Now felius, what are you bringing to the party?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Course Detail and Costs

After research we have fixed the Instructors Course and accompanying Ab-Initio Students costs as follows.

Instructors Course - CISM at Ashbury arrive evening Thu 5th March or early Friday, finish Sunday 8th mid afternoon.

Includes accommodation, three meals a day and wine in France but not at Sally-Ann's Farmhouse B&B at Ashbury: £1095 Farmhouse B&B with a breakfast that is famous for its ability to sink battleships cost £35/night.

Ab-Initio Students arrive France - Airvault Sat pm on 21st March, leave pm on Sat 28th.

Includes accommodation, three meals a day and wine in France: £550. This is subsidised one-on-one training supervised by our Panel Examiner.

All courses exclude transport, fuel for flying and incidental expenses. You shouldn't have many of those.

Comparison

The BHPA course in Derbyshire is costed at £1199 and does not include accommodation and certainly not food and wine. I pass you these details to illustrate the efforts we have gone applied to keep the cost down and deliver the best weather and training we are able to.

The instructors course is full subject to one confirmation, if anyone wants to go on standby in case of drop-outs or illness please let me know.

Ab-initios have to be confirmed, there is space for five and I have seven names so far, some of whom will be unable to make it. If you are interested in learning as a newcomer or are early solo, now is the time to send me a note. First come first served.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share




×
×
  • Create New...