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4 stroke over 2stroke


morgy
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Hi all

I am new to paramotoring but i fly on the hill i have about 50+ hours or so. I would like to know what people think of four stroke over 2 stroke. i have been looking at the bailey 150 as i am 75kg's i know they wiegh more and are probly better on fuel. is it worth the extra money for a four stroke ie servicing etc. i am struggling to find a paramotor as there are so many out there to choose from and any thoughts you guys have will help me out alot

many thanks

:D

morgy

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Hi all

I am new to paramotoring but i fly on the hill i have about 50+ hours or so. I would like to know what people think of four stroke over 2 stroke. i have been looking at the bailey 150 as i am 75kg's i know they wiegh more and are probly better on fuel. is it worth the extra money for a four stroke ie servicing etc. i am struggling to find a paramotor as there are so many out there to choose from and any thoughts you guys have will help me out alot

many thanks

:D

morgy

I would choose a 4 stroke over a 2 smoke any day, they are far more reliable too, ok they are heavier but this only really matters when you are on the ground and as you are an experienced flyer you wont be having to lug it around on your back too much, with a 4 stroke you will much more confident that you can turn up at the field and your motor will start and run well all day long.

if you want a hassle free motor then go for the 4 stroke.

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Although remember- 2 strokes have fewer moving parts, and are twice as powerful for a given weight- compared to four strokes.

pros and cons for each way now, but the future will be direct injection 2 stroke machines- similar weight to current 2 strokes, same power and weight, with the economy of a 4 stroke..... bring it on!!!!

GD

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Although remember- 2 strokes have fewer moving parts, and are twice as powerful for a given weight- compared to four strokes.

pros and cons for each way now, but the future will be direct injection 2 stroke machines- similar weight to current 2 strokes, same power and weight, with the economy of a 4 stroke..... bring it on!!!!

GD

Before getting into paramotors I raced quads and before that karts, 4 strokes have praticaly wiped out 2 strokes in quad racing and the billand four stroke motor is turning karting on its head, I have a lot of experience with both types of motor, a four stroke is by far a superior motor to a 2 stroke, yes the 2 strokes make more power but that power is in a very narrow band, if you want good strong useable tourqe across most of the rev range you go for a 4 stroke, they run cleaner, stay in tune longer, require far less maintainence and compare with a 2 stroke practcaly bombproof.

trust me, the day I switched racing a 2 to a 4 stroke was the day I said goodbye to most of my reliability issues.

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Hey Outcast,

Given your knowledge of both the 2 and 4 stroke motor developments in karting. Looking at the progress made with the Bailey and the latest generation of 2 stroke paramotors, can you see improvements that could be made to both types of motor in paramotoring that are being missed?

ie: Is paramotoring technology being surpassed by the karting fraternity, or are they running alongside each other?

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Hey Outcast,

Given your knowledge of both the 2 and 4 stroke motor developments in karting. Looking at the progress made with the Bailey and the latest generation of 2 stroke paramotors, can you see improvements that could be made to both types of motor in paramotoring that are being missed?

ie: Is paramotoring technology being surpassed by the karting fraternity, or are they running alongside each other?

Norman, I think the only reason 2 strokes are still popular in karting is because some race classes are for purely 2 stroke machines, if it was all open class racing the four strokes would dominate, if you get the chance to look at a biland SA250 motor you will see its a peice of four stroke art, I manage to get some time in one, at the time I was racing long track karts, my kart had a cr500 2 stroke engine wich was quick, but the useable power the billand put out was staggaring, the measure of a good engine is not its HP but its tourqe, I think its only a matter of time before 4 stroke engines become the norm in paramotoring as the have done in so many other areas, quads, dirtbikes, superbikes, snowmobiles etc.

I think as the sport grows and more investment is put into it we will see some exciting developments in both types of motor, but I have seen this type of thing before and it only ever goes one way, a few companies will start to develope their own 4 stroke motor or will use a outsourced motor and everyone will start to follow, more investment and focus will be put on making the four stroke lighter and more suited to paramotors gradually the 2 stroke will fall from grace and we will all be flying more often with less problems, records will be broken for distance, height etc and we will all sit around a cold beer after a days flying and saying things like "I cant believe we actually flew a paramotor with a solo 210, blimey those were the days " :lol::lol:

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2 stroke any day, loads more power, you dont have to run a football pitch to get up,lighter and alot lighter at that,my rossy does on average 3lts/hr with 65kgs of thrust. outcast you say reliability? I know of quite alot of non 4strokers that have blown up or had trouble with. Its true what people say about you get use to a particular model/brand etc but I'd stick with my trusty PAP ROS anyday,good luck choosing just dont rush into buying the first thing you see!

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Thanks' gents, whatever happens, motors are moving forwards and can only get better hopefully. Being a mechanical numptie relegates me to the observers box, but I can't help feeling that as the technologies peak, the balance will still waver across unless someone makes a breakthrough.

Lets say the 2 stroke became quiet and the 4 became lighter..... :roll:

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Or Simon.... what about a compromise on all 3 arguements here and say- electric fuel cell......

No doubt electricity will be the winner in the end, but the technology in energy storage is not quite 100% yet. Sure there are some pretty impressive batteries available now, but they can get better and cheaper.....

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Thanks' gents, whatever happens, motors are moving forwards and can only get better hopefully. Being a mechanical numptie relegates me to the observers box, but I can't help feeling that as the technologies peak, the balance will still waver across unless someone makes a breakthrough.

Lets say the 2 stroke became quiet and the 4 became lighter..... :roll:

more to the point Simon, I think in todays "save the planet" society 2 strokes need to be cleaner

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Or Simon.... what about a compromise on all 3 arguements here and say- electric fuel cell......

No doubt electricity will be the winner in the end, but the technology in energy storage is not quite 100% yet. Sure there are some pretty impressive batteries available now, but they can get better and cheaper.....

the technology exists to make a electirc paramotor that would give the same performance and range as petrol motors, its just the cost would be out of most peoples reach, until the price comes down where it would be worth marketing I think maybe a hybrid pretrol electric motor could be the solution, a small petrol motor that would kick in when the battery runs low and keep it topped up, once up in the air the prop could be powered solely by electric.

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WOW thanks for all the comments guys

i think as with everything it come down to personal choice. i wish i could go out and try b4 you buy but as i dont have a rating for ppg i cant and i dont seem to be able to learn without buying a paramotor first. AARRGGHH talk about catch 22.

i do like the idea of 4 stroke as a few friends of mine ride motorcross and there 2 stoke bikes were always going wrong but now they ride bigger 400 4stroke they seen to never go wrong.

thanks again

:lol::D

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By the time the Hyb Petrol / leci, unit was developed, and then produced. The Epac will last over 2 hours.

SW :D

that may be so Simon, but, the big advantage the cumbustion engine has over electric power is that its output stays almost constant no matter how long it is ran for, whereas the minute you start flying your electric motors output will be deminishing, the epac may at some time have a endurance of many hours, but once the initial "full" charge starts going down will it be able to give you enough power to get you back home after a cross country flight and you find you are flying into a fairly strong headwind.

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I haven't flown a 4 stroke. I'd like to but I chose the "as much power as I can get my hands on route" and that led me to the Simonini 200. Run at quarter throttle it's light on fuel. I get 15 hours flying from a litre and a half of cheap 2 stroke oil. Comparable cost with the synthetic 4 stroke oil which needs disposing of after 15 hours of use in a 4 stroke engine. No tappets to adjust,so nice and simple for the DIY chaps. Rakes of power when you need it or if you just want to climb at 425 ft/min, or if you dont like running long takeoffs.

Put me on wheels, however, and I'd go 4 stroke option because I think that's a proper engine.

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I haven't flown a 4 stroke. I'd like to but I chose the "as much power as I can get my hands on route" and that led me to the Simonini 200. Run at quarter throttle it's light on fuel. I get 15 hours flying from a litre and a half of cheap 2 stroke oil. Comparable cost with the synthetic 4 stroke oil which needs disposing of after 15 hours of use in a 4 stroke engine. No tappets to adjust,so nice and simple for the DIY chaps. Rakes of power when you need it or if you just want to climb at 425 ft/min, or if you dont like running long takeoffs.

Put me on wheels, however, and I'd go 4 stroke option because I think that's a proper engine.

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I haven't flown a 4 stroke. I'd like to but I chose the "as much power as I can get my hands on route" and that led me to the Simonini 200. Run at quarter throttle it's light on fuel. I get 15 hours flying from a litre and a half of cheap 2 stroke oil. Comparable cost with the synthetic 4 stroke oil which needs disposing of after 15 hours of use in a 4 stroke engine. No tappets to adjust,so nice and simple for the DIY chaps. Rakes of power when you need it or if you just want to climb at 425 ft/min, or if you dont like running long takeoffs.

Put me on wheels, however, and I'd go 4 stroke option because I think that's a proper engine.

Dave

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There is a corking Wankel kart engine that looks like it might be a great powerplant. Do a Google on the Aixro XR50.

Wankels are a sort of hybrid 2/4 stroke I suppose. Isn't Gilo developing his version?

I did think about a rotary engine, the only problem with them was about 20 years ago suzuki brought out a bike with a rotary engine, it did not really do well as the gyroscopic effect of the motor gave it some strange handling traits, in four wheels it works as you have the stability but something hanging from a couple of mallions on a wing may get very interesting :D

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Ok, I've been avoiding this thread to let it find its natural course but now perhaps it's time for me to contribute. I am in the lucky position of owning 2 paramotors, a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke. My preference will always lie with the 4 stroke because it is so economical, so quiet and so progressive on the throttle. People say they are unreliable however I have never found this to be the case and the support from the manufacturer is (contrary to what some people say) superb. They are undoubtedly heavy, however the manufacturers claimed weight is exactly true (unlike most) and the clever set up of the harness means that the weight makes it feel lighter than some slightly lighter less well set up 2 strokes. A comparison recently showed my larger sized standard frame Bailey 175 to be lighter than a mid sized titanium caged mainstream paramotor when both were fuelled up for 1 hour flight time. Fuelling up for more than 1 hour flight time massively tips the scales in the 4 strokes favour.

However, I fly a spectacularly large wing as it is the fastest and the slowest (when needed) out there. This wing (almost a tandem, as Simon Payne likes to remind me!) takes a big effort to forward on a zero wind day and then I find the weight of the larger paramotors to be restrictive. Consequently, my 2 stroke which puts out 22hp yet only weighs 26kg despite being both manual and electric start is my weapon of choice if there is no wind.

Both have fuel tanks that are legal. The 2 stroke can eke 2.5 hours out of a tank but with careful flying the 4 stroke can do nearly 5. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

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