Guest Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 am wondering what ya thoughts are to ground handling with the motor on ya back everytime ya go out would there be any benifit in ground handling with the motor on ya back to get used to the weight and i guess it would be a good fitness thing too it is somethin i am considering doing rather than the ground handlin with the free harness, i think with the motor on ya back it will become second nature and build great confidence, whats ya thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Yes SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 is it a common thing simon or not too common as i not heard of people doing ths i just feel it would be great benefits toit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 am wondering what ya thoughts are to ground handling with the motor on ya back everytime ya go out would there be any benifit in ground handling with the motor on ya back to get used to the weight and i guess it would be a good fitness thing too it is somethin i am considering doing rather than the ground handlin with the free harness, i think with the motor on ya back it will become second nature and build great confidence, whats ya thoughts I geuss yes would be the answer, certainly makes things interesting when you get that wieght on your back running across a field, if you fear damaging your motor if you fall over you could always put the same amount of wieght in a rucksack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 theres a good thought we all do ground handlin i think then we put motor on and it is a different game altogether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 You will see, Many people 'showing off' at how they can ground handle a wing with no harness or motor.... Whats the piont???? (to show others how good you are?) Do you take off without a motor??? no or a harness???? again... no.... If you want to practice and get it right, ground handle with your motor on your back for at least 5 mins before a take off, you will become much better at take offs than people who dont. We have been watching this for a a number of months and via a number of students. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Does it then make sense to ground handle with your actual wing? As opposed to having a seperate 'duff' ground handling wing? The principle must be the same. Obviously each type of wing has its own characteristics, so surely it makes more sense to ground handle with the actual wing you are going to use? I accept that us newbies don't (and probably shouldn't) run off like kids and buy the first wing on ebay....but it would make more snese to ground handle in the same condition you will be taking off in, ie, motor and actual wing?!? Forgive me if there are any obvious reasons for not, but enlighten me if there are...maybe damage etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Flying the wing without the harness can help test the air for turbulence without getting lifted and dumped but if the wind is anything more than a gentle breeze the wing needs its full payload to keep it under control, which means pilot strapped into the motor, helmeted and treating the ground handling exercise as a full flight with plan and planB (andC). The wing handles differently when properly loaded and it is that tthat you need to practise. There is good value in honing your skills to the point of "intuitive reaction" and this can be done initially with a free flying harness. I still think that you should use one with back protection and wear a helmet cos this is when you are most likely to bump into the planet. Even so eventually you have to transfer these skills to the motor. Using a ragged out wing is ok but you may learn as many bad habits trying to get it inflated and overhead as valuable skills. Best get onto your full flying kit as soon as you can afford to as it is this kit that you need to be perfect on. Learning in a school on good kit is the best way and if you have your training within a short period you will be flying rather than ground handling. I like Simon's idea of doing a few minutes before each take off to keep the skills honed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frazer1981 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I think a big part of the problem is cost? It is in my case anyway, i brought a cheap ground handling wing to practice as and when in my own time and i combine that with paying for the tuition. Ideally i can see the benefits in practicing with the 'actual' wing that you will be flying with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Ground handling with a porous, blown out wing with line lengths all to pot can be very dis-heartening. I can imagine it could actually get people to give up. My G/H wing and my flying wing 'kite' so differently you just wouldn't believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I have just bought and am about to fit a pair of Charly Easy-outs. One for the motor harness and one for the free flight harness. Getting dragged by 34 metres of billowing ripstop nylon isn't an option for me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Ok, so we seem to agree that ground handling is best carried out under 'flight' situations, as in, with a motor and your actual wing - not a ground handling wing. Obviously this is dependant (i'd expect the majority of the time) on finances etc.. So, although the general consensus is ground handling is best practiced with motor and wing, it is not always practical and it in no means implies you rush out and buy lots of expensive stuff that could well be wrong for you. If you are not sure on the type of wing and motor best suited for you, don't make flippent decisions - an element of research and brain picking (on here, talking to experienced chaps) is highly advised. I guess this also suggests that if initially (with no ground handling experience) I do some research, ask some people and then decide on buying a particular wing that is not generally regarded as a 'newbie wing' and start from scratch with that, it should be less of a porblem than if I was using a 'slower' wing and then swapped. Surely my handling of the 'faster' wing will be all I know how to handle etc....? That about right? (he says as he checks his flippent wing bid on ebay...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcs Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I've done a lot of this in the last couple of months not realy through choice, just through bottling it but its certainly made the whole xperience easier for me, I can fail 4 or 5 launches now before getting tired and I can wander around with the motor on my back for a good half hour before it gets uncomfortable which I couldn't do a few weeks back, this takes a lot of pressure off the whole thing as I'm not thinking about the weight or pain before attempting a launch. Also, if I go to the field and there is nobody around then I won't fly on my own but I will usually strap in, power up and launch across the field just gently squeezing the throttle to keep the speed in the wing, really really good practice for getting used to 'feeling' where the wing is. I do the same if the conditions are ok for GH but not flight! As far as the wing you use for ground handling,I only have my flying wing so thats all I can use but in training I had a horrible old poros wing that was a pig, BUT, once I'd learned to kite that one I then moved onto a new Apco Thrust and it was piss easy. Personally I think too many newbies go straight for an intermediate wing without enough experience, I have no desire to fly a Revolution just yet as they seem way too fast on take off and landing for me, my wing feels safe and trusty even if it is much slower and for now thats all I care about, maybe I'll get another faster wing after a year. Shame that you can't rent your first beginner wing until you've had a few flights on it and then take it back to a dealer and do a deal to take the rental cost off the price of a new upgrade, I'm sure a win supplier would be really popular with that option! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Just ask yourself the question... If its to windy to ground handle with your motor on, do you want to fly? SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 (edited) Reflections... Depends at what stage of the game your kiting skills are at really, doesn't it? The wing will handle in much the same way, motor on or off your back. The skills you acquire (and the fun you have) will come more quickly without 30-40kg straining away at your shoulders. The consequences of slipping, losing balance or getting dragged with a motor on your back as you 'acquire skills' can be painful and expensive. If I want to build a tolerance to the motors weight I can half fill it with gas and take it for a walk. If you can produce three consistent and successful reverse launches with a turn, forward motion with the wing tracking well overhead and all with your motor on your back, the odds are that you will make it into the air quite well imho. Just a thought. After a few PM's. Charley 'Qick-Outs' (I confused the name with another product) are just a way of getting rid of a wing (or one side to de-power) in a hurry. I think you need to be very clear about your pre-flight inspection routine to ensure that this really handy and top quality product is correctly set. That said having been dragged toward a barbed wire fence once and imagined what it must be like to carry out an emergency landing in an unsuitable spot and get dragged toward a cliff, I can fully appreciate its potential value (this has happened to a friend Talk to an expert before you make your decision - I did. Edited August 28, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 You will see,Many people 'showing off' at how they can ground handle a wing with no harness or motor.... Whats the piont???? (to show others how good you are?) Do you take off without a motor??? no or a harness???? again... no.... If you want to practice and get it right, ground handle with your motor on your back for at least 5 mins before a take off, you will become much better at take offs than people who dont. We have been watching this for a a number of months and via a number of students. SW I would have to take issue with some of the above, firstly I have only ever ground handled the wing with no harness (kiting) to gauge the wind and make a desicion on wether it was safe to strap on a harness and risk getting dragged across the field, this is an excelent way for us newbies to get a feel for the wing and how it would react in such wind conditions and no I would not want to fly when the wind was that strong but then during a flight the wind strentgh could change dramatricly and I could be faced with having to handle such wind speed. also as newbies we are constantly told, and quite rightly so, that we should wait to purchase our wing/ motor until we know wich set up would be good for us, so i think the fact that many newbies ground handle a wing, lent to them by a friend, owned by their instructor etc, may well be a through necesity rather than practical choice, of course if you already own a motor and wing then I wholehaertdly agree with what you say, but for some it is just not a choice they can make when starting out. as far as I can see, any ground handling we can do will help us along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 With harness Yes, (as my origonal messages says ) Witout.... pointless (if only to test the wind, buy a £15 wind meter and dont use your £2k wing) Each to there own, but I suppose if I was going to ground handle my wing with no harness for fun... I would use an old wing or buy a big kite. Just my opinion of course. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Hi Norman I think that Charly Quick outs are a great idea, especially if they can save you from this................ (Due to the high humour content I will risk degrading this thread into a reality TV show!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 i think the whole concept of ground handling is to get familiar with the wing but also to react to a situation, i put it like this when you first learn to drive a car you get used to that car then get in another and go and stall it but over time you can jump in any motor and just drive it i think the ground handling will become the same you will just be able to handle and control any wing given time with obviously different wings so the more ground handling you can do with crap and good wings can only build experience preferably with the motor on ya back ok its gonna wear ya out but look at it this way when ya hundred and ten and people ask whats ya secret for bein so fit you tell them it was a wing and a bloody big motor on my back lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 'bout right Lee. I got an old crap DHV2 ancient sporty thing for a 100 quid to drag around in the turd. If you can keep that above yer head the new wings are a piece of cake to handle. Do it every chance you get. Dont neccessarily need the motor on yer back but use a good harness with back protection as ground handling will put you at risk as much, if not more, than flying will. When you've cracked it without the motor,and it's weight, try a few with the motor. Then go fly it some bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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