Paramania REVO2

[custom-vince]

Flew the 29 and the 26.

Fusion 29 is a great wing as well, I have more people wanting to demo the revo2 and point is im am just as happy to fly the revo2 even though I am used to flying the Fusion.

Revo2 is not a lively as Fusion but it is very very good, it is still fun. I wasn't comparing like for like they are both different wings aimed at different abilities.

[Guest]

Vince, what's your weight in KG?

I am 75kg + motor e.t.c and fly the 23 Fusion and it's like being in TRON! The 26 felt like a bus to me in comparison.

Again, to back up Pete's comment... you say your not comparing them... but you did mention it in comparison... so....

If your comparing a different size wing it's a non starter.

Why not compare it to a 26 Revo 1 so that people can relate?

SW

[custom-vince]

It was a while ago I flew the original revolution. I remember enough that the Revo2 feels more fusion'esc than revolution. ie better glide and lighter handling.

[Guest]

Still quite interested in the weight

SW

[custom-vince]

sorry mate. 86kg + motor.

Going by the book that would be Fu29 Revo26 , we know could fly all sizes down to 23's how much does that affect economy / climb rate / take off run.

The Revo2 26 felt bigger than the Fusion 26 (physically they look about the same (this is not a side by side comparison so is subject to a few weeks sleep in between))

[custom-vince]

Another buzz on the 26 last night, very rough so landed on full fast using full reflex. Strange converging weather fronts (forecast was wrong) nice sturdy wing, landing in conditions I didn't take off in and wouldn't.

[buzzman003]

Anyone else have this tried this wing. I'm looking at the Revo2 because you can use it for both paragliding a paramoting. I am just starting out. My instructor is a dealer for Marpara only and wants me to buy the Eden 4 powered but I don't know if I really want to do that. I think I would be better off with the Reflex technology. I want to fly a B-2 someday so the reflex technology is really cool since they first used it on flying wing designs.

Anyone flown both a relex and non-relex wing? How do the different trimmer settings change the handling characteristics. So i can actually change the trimmers IN FLIGHT?! That sounds like a no brainer on which one I should get.

Thanks!

[aquatix]

I fly the Eden 4 and also the Revo 2 until it was recently sold. I've had the Eden 4 over a year now and it is a fantastic wing to launch & fly. Extremely well made, excellent manners & handling, safe & reassuring in rough air and very fast for its class.

The Revo 2 is also an excellent wing and faster when in Reflex mode. I only sold it as I prefer the tip steering on the Nucleon (which is not suitable for a beginner).

I would say the Eden 4 is the best option if you will do an equal mix of free flying and motoring. If you mainly do long XC motor flights and only occasional free flying then the Revo 2 would be better due to its extra speed, although you will stay up longer on the Eden 4 as it is more efficient than a reflex profile.

Both have trimmers that are adjusted in flight - you let them out for extra speed and pull them in for sharper handling, better turns, launching and landing etc. Both have foot operated accelerator (speed bar) for extra speed. Both are EN B rated for safety.

The difference is the Revo 2 is designed to be flown trimmers out and hands off in rough air, whilst the Eden 4 should be flown actively with trimmers in. Active flying will make you a better pilot and give you more feel for the wing and the air you are flying in.

What are the other people flying with ? Reflex technology has been slow to take off in the USA, mainly due to one loud mouthed idiot trying to hawk his out-dated designs by telling lies that all reflex wings are "uncertified death traps". I think you will enjoy either choice but not much point having the extra reflex speed if nobody else can keep up, or if you will do a lot of free flying.

If you need to know anything specific about either wing just give me a shout.

Alan

[poz]

I think you will enjoy either choice but not much point having the extra reflex speed if nobody else can keep up

This is such a good point. One I didn't consider when buying my Revo2. Now I don't know if I'm coming or going

I am a relative beginner, with under 20 hours and this is my first wing. I would say that my only critisism of the Revo2 is that you need 2 hands to pull in the trimmers. This has put me off using my trimmers much because I find that I usually want to pull them in as I get lower to the ground. This does not inspire confidence in a beginner. Also it's really difficult to maintain a steady throttle setting whilst trying to do this. Every time I try I make myself feel sick and then I just want to land. Not brilliant.

Apart from this one problem, I cannot fault this wing. When I forward launch, it pops up straight every time which is confidence building.

I would give it 4.5/5 (the trimmers accounting for the .5)

Hope this helps.

Dan

[paramotormike]

Hi Dan, I know what you mean.

Hard to change trimmer setting whilst keeping a constant throttle.

This is what I did in the beginning.

1) If it’s time to go low or land I decide this at a good height (at least 500 feet for me or higher).

2) Then I slowly let the throttle down to tick over.

3) Now both hands are free to pull in the trimmers evenly to landing/take off position.

4) Get fingers back on throttle and slow accelerate to level flight .

5) Obviously keep an eye on where you are going and how much height you have lost.

6) The whole thing takes about 5 to 10 seconds max.

This works for me.

Cheers

Mike

[poz]

Hi Dan, I know what you mean.

Hard to change trimmer setting whilst keeping a constant throttle.

This is what I did in the beginning.

1) If it’s time to go low or land I decide this at a good height (at least 500 feet for me or higher).

2) Then I slowly let the throttle down to tick over.

3) Now both hands are free to pull in the trimmers evenly to landing/take off position.

4) Get fingers back on throttle and slow accelerate to level flight .

5) Obviously keep an eye on where you are going and how much height you have lost.

6) The whole thing takes about 5 to 10 seconds max.

This works for me.

Cheers

Mike

Thanks for that Mike. It's one of those things that I think you need to practice to speed up the operation. Right now it's taking me about 20 seconds.....each side

[buzzman003]

That is some really good help. Alan, how much is the price difference for the Eden 4 powered versus the revo2? I can can the revo2 for $2995 or about UK£1850. I didn't know the Eden had trimmers.

I would mostly be flying with power since the land around here is flat. But it does get really windy. Average wind speeds are 15-20 mph. We have a bunch of wind farms out here!

Thanks again for everyone's help.

[paramotormike]

Hi Dan.

Obviously you have to pull the trimmers in together at the same time both sides.

Otherwise one side of the wing is trying to fly slow and the other side fast.

Nasty things might happen.

A little bit of difference is OK I'm told, but don't pull one all the way in and then the other side.

Mike

[amc1929]

I ALSO NOTICED THAT MY REVO2 IS VERY HARD TO PULL TRIMMERS BACK IN. WHEN I TRY TO PULL THEM IN IT JUST PULLS D LINES DOWN WHICH MY OLD REVO DIDNT DO. BUT A MUCH EASIER LAUNCHED WING THAN MY OLD REVO. I FIND A QUICK JERK ON EACH TRIM TO PULL IN WORKS OK. I HAVE A FINGER THROTTLE WHICH FREES UP BOTH HANDS TO HELP PULL IN. BY THE WAY THE FINGER THROTTLE MADE BY CAMELON IS A BRILLIANT JOB, BY FAR THE BEST MOD MADE TO MY PAP F200.

[poz]

I ALSO NOTICED THAT MY REVO2 IS VERY HARD TO PULL TRIMMERS BACK IN. WHEN I TRY TO PULL THEM IN IT JUST PULLS D LINES DOWN WHICH MY OLD REVO DIDNT DO. BUT A MUCH EASIER LAUNCHED WING THAN MY OLD REVO. I FIND A QUICK JERK ON EACH TRIM TO PULL IN WORKS OK. I HAVE A FINGER THROTTLE WHICH FREES UP BOTH HANDS TO HELP PULL IN. BY THE WAY THE FINGER THROTTLE MADE BY CAMELON IS A BRILLIANT JOB, BY FAR THE BEST MOD MADE TO MY PAP F200.

A finger throttle???

How does that work?

Have you got a picture?

How much?

Cheers

Dan

[clivefreeman]

Heres a you tube clip of it, there was a thread on it under paramotor (replacement throttle)

Thanks Clive

[poz]

Heres a you tube clip of it, there was a thread on it under paramotor (replacement throttle)

Thanks Clive

Interesting. Thanks Clive

[aquatix]

Hi Buzzman - the Eden 4 can be bought in PG mode (without trimmers) or PPG with them, although you can buy the risers separately quite cheap. There are actually 4 types - the DULV ones have dual hangpoints but shorter speedbar range. http://www.macpara.com/en/others.html. Not sure of prices in your area but you can usually haggle for a good discount. I got mine for £1900 when the list price was £2400.

The Revo 2 would probably be best for higher wind speeds if you mainly motor. I have flown it in 20mph smooth coastal air and it was great, but I would suggest a maximum of 10mph until you gain experience then 15mph only if it is smooth with no gusts.

The Macjet is s fair bit faster than the Eden 4 and a very nice wing, but not for a beginner.

Mike, I found it was best to pull each trimmer down close to neutral (from full speed) which doesn't have any adverse effects. After that it is easy to pull them down one handed if required. The quick jerk with one hand also works (especially if you need to adjust them quickly for landing after an engine failure) but it feels a bit weird.

Dan, I wrote a bit about the finger throttle on this thread (http://www.paramotorclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5753) - in my opinion one of the best upgrades you can make to any paramotor ....

[poz]

Hi Buzzman - the Eden 4 can be bought in PG mode (without trimmers) or PPG with them, although you can buy the risers separately quite cheap. There are actually 4 types - the DULV ones have dual hangpoints but shorter speedbar range. http://www.macpara.com/en/others.html. Not sure of prices in your area but you can usually haggle for a good discount. I got mine for £1900 when the list price was £2400.

The Revo 2 would probably be best for higher wind speeds if you mainly motor. I have flown it in 20mph smooth coastal air and it was great, but I would suggest a maximum of 10mph until you gain experience then 15mph only if it is smooth with no gusts.

The Macjet is s fair bit faster than the Eden 4 and a very nice wing, but not for a beginner.

Mike, I found it was best to pull each trimmer down close to neutral (from full speed) which doesn't have any adverse effects. After that it is easy to pull them down one handed if required. The quick jerk with one hand also works (especially if you need to adjust them quickly for landing after an engine failure) but it feels a bit weird.

Dan, I wrote a bit about the finger throttle on this thread (http://www.paramotorclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5753) - in my opinion one of the best upgrades you can make to any paramotor ....

Thanks for the advice. The finger throttle looks very tempting. What's it like to fit? Would I need to get Pap to do it or is it pretty straight forward?

Cheers

Dan

[aquatix]

Hi Dan, its a pretty easy swap - maybe an hour maximum to remove your old throttle and fit the Cameleon. Only 3 wires, so you just need to identify what wires currently go into your existing throttle.

I know at least 4 other people who have changed and all loved it from the first few minutes ...

[clivefreeman]

This might sound like a silly question But what hand would you go for . Im right handed and thinking go for a left hand one as to free up the other for cameras and what not. Is it easy to get used to your opposite hand ?

[aquatix]

Good question. I know one guy switched throttle hands and doesn't seem to have had problems with this.

I'm not very ambidextrous so stuck with the right handed throttle. The great thing about it is it operates by bending your finger in the middle, so you can still hold a camera normally and press the shutter with your finger tip (or middle finger) even while loosely holding the brake toggles.

One slight issue is you can easily forget its there, which can cause a few interesting power surges when scratching your nose or rummaging in your pocket for a phone etc....

[vassilis]

I am still going through this (and past) threads on the Revo 2 and I would like some opinions on the wing size I should pick.

First of all I should mention that I want to be able to use this wing with a free flight harness and also thermal with the motor off. Most of my flying will be with a motor but I would like to have options.

I weigh 65kg and I am between 80kg - 85kg on a free flight harness and about 105kg - 110kg with my motor (incl. fuel).

I fall in the range of both the Small and Medium sizes, I am thinking that the Medium might be a better choice since the wing will be more lightly loaded which is good for slow speed and low sink rates when thermalling/soaring and I always have the option to speed the wing-up in reflex mode. However I will be very close to the low end of the weight range for free flight.

What do you think?

Thanks! Vassilis

[t_andrews]

You at least have options.

I fly a fusion 29 with "Mountain" strapping harness free flight @ 105kg to get the same sink rate as my conventional wing.

Had I known about custom sizes, I would have considered a larger size to place my free flight with harness weight somewhere in the middle of the range, rather then the top.

Place the larger of the flight expectations on your wing size decision and match wing choice to that (always good advice) but with consideration that your trim range and bar can extend the top end with motor. Your risk being lighter in reflex is low in comparison to a conventional wing underloaded.

My next wing will be purchased lining up flight ready free flight kit with middle of the weight range. Given there are so little (to zero at present) tests done with motor loading, and an 8G rating on pretty much everything launched lately, it's a compromises that would probably work for anyone.

Good luck weighing your options.

[vassilis]

Thanks for the information!

I am leaning towards to M size due to the improved sink rate, the reduced speed due to the lower wing loading is not as much of an issue to me since I can always speed-up the wing in reflex mode.

I was told that the handling may also change with the lighter wing loading. Although I am not looking for a very sporty wing, I would like to get better handling than my 25m2 EN A wing. I do understand that in relfex mode the wing becomes less responsive, it is the low speed (neutral to low trims) mode I am mostly asking about.

Has anybody flown two different sizes of the Revo? Will the size make a big difference in handling?