deno Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 It is a little far back by the looks of things. As Pete says, if you were to simulate the thrust in the center of the prop you may find its OK. Just out of interest do I see that you have a Parajet set of blades on your Pap? SW Its actually a Vortex paramotor (based on a PAP), which I believe originally had a 3 blade carbon prop. I don't know if the prop was originally made by Parajet as the guy I bought it from replaced it a couple of years ago, as he broke it. The Vortex seems to be based on a PAP 1100AS with the addition of a carbon prop, tuned exhaust, and extra cooling on the cylinder head. Apart from that I don't know much about it. Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 It looks like the motor is dropping back from your shoulders. Can you tighten the shoulder straps any more? Ian. Here's the pic - The shoulder straps are as tight as they will go Ian, I'll see what happens when I get someone to push on the prop. Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 yes looks like it is hangin back a lot just like mine, bottom half of the harness make thicker will push the bottom of th motor out which will bring it in line, just on the subject of thrust, i was under the impresion that when thust is applied the angle increased not decreased? this was told to me by a very experienced person. so now i dont know cos from what i read off here it decreases the angle? i know from flying and asking certain people to watch, i was told that it hangs back a little when level flight but climbing it hangs back a lot which said to me it was due to amount of throttle applied. as far as i know the more thrust the more under the wing it pushes you and the more the angle increases? i dont think its a bad thing the motor hangin back a bit because it is easier to gain height and not as much throttle needed for level flight so saves fuel .. so long as ya carefull on the throttle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 The harness is obviously not made for the motor, I would either get another harness or put the low hang point arms back on, is there any reason not to put them back on? if its based on the 1100as wich I fly then I cant see why you would want to change the harness, mine was simple to set up and flies lovely with the low hang points, yes its a bit more "bumpy" when its rough but its not that bigger problem. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I agree. Go back to standard. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 The harness is obviously not made for the motor, I would either get another harness or put the low hang point arms back on, is there any reason not to put them back on? if its based on the 1100as wich I fly then I cant see why you would want to change the harness, mine was simple to set up and flies lovely with the low hang points, yes its a bit more "bumpy" when its rough but its not that bigger problem.Dave. Hi Dave Things are getting a little confused here This is the original harness with the low hang points, the arms are obscured by the step ladder in the photo unfortunately. I tried a high hang point harness temporarily when I did my training with Paul Haxby as he considers low hang point arms dangerous. I have now re-fitted the original Vortex (Sup-air) low hang point harness, hence the hang test. It is at present hanging from the most inboard holes in the arms. I haven't yet flown this Paramotor with a low hang point harness only with Paul Haxby's Apco high hang point harness, this is why I want to get the thrust angle correct. Phew!! Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 oh sorry mate, if its on the innermost holes and still hanging back thats strange, when you refitted the original harness are you certain you fitted it as before, BTW Deno where are you in the UK, as your motor is based on my motor I may be able to bring mine to you and we can compare them to see if anything stands out. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 It looks like the motor is dropping back from your shoulders. Can you tighten the shoulder straps any more? Ian. Here's the pic - hang on a minute, looking at that photo you may have the ropes you are hanging from attached in the worng place, I cant say for sure but my harness has two attachments up high on the shoulder straps for the reserve, the attachments for your wing should be just above the arms, on the below pic of mine look at the arm wich is on the pilots right, left in the pic, you can see where my wing would attach, is it here that you are attaching the rope on yours? Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 do you have the leg support on the front of the harness ( a 4 inch extension that you can set the height of) This needs to be pulled out forward and adjusted so that it is supporting the weight of your legs which will cause more weight to bear down on the front so reducing the angle of lean back. Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 yes looks like it is hangin back a lot just like mine, bottom half of the harness make thicker will push the bottom of th motor out which will bring it in line, just on the subject of thrust, i was under the impression that when thust is applied the angle increased not decreased? this was told to me by a very experienced person. so now i don't know cos from what i read off here it decreases the angle? i know from flying and asking certain people to watch, i was told that it hangs back a little when level flight but climbing it hangs back a lot which said to me it was due to amount of throttle applied. as far as i know the more thrust the more under the wing it pushes you and the more the angle increases? i don't think its a bad thing the motor hanging back a bit because it is easier to gain height and not as much throttle needed for level flight so saves fuel .. so long as ya careful on the throttle Are you are talking about the angle compared with mother earth? When you apply power you will move forward compared to the wing which will cause the angle of the wing to change which is why you climb. If your motor leans back more on power (comparing it to the wing) then "Huston you have a problem". Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 oh sorry mate, if its on the innermost holes and still hanging back thats strange, when you refitted the original harness are you certain you fitted it as before, BTW Deno where are you in the UK, as your motor is based on my motor I may be able to bring mine to you and we can compare them to see if anything stands out.Dave. Its impossible to fit it incorrectly, its just fastened with 2 bolts through the webbing and 2 small plates at the top. Theres just a large cable tie securing the harness the the frame at the bottom. I'm in North Lincolnshire, on the East Coast...about 3 hours from you in Hertfordshire. The only thing I can think of that would make this hang further back that the PAP is that the tuned exhaust is bl**dy heavy. As the Solo 210 engine is quite large front to back, this means that the heavy exhaust quite a long way back from the hang points, so needs even more weight in front of the hang point to counter balance it, given that the hang point is actually in front of the center of balance Does that make any sense? Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 do you have the leg support on the front of the harness ( a 4 inch extension that you can set the height of)This needs to be pulled out forward and adjusted so that it is supporting the weight of your legs which will cause more weight to bear down on the front so reducing the angle of lean back. Pete b as above, mine has that but I did not need it to set the angle when I did a hang test, looking at that pic I still think something is wrong, compare the distance between the arm and the hook in point on mine and yours, not only that but the arms seem to be right up under your armpits, mine are much lower down, this is definately the correct harness for the motor? Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Looks like eagle eyed Dave is onto something!!! The ropes should be attached to the bars and not the shoulder straps. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Looks like eagle eyed Dave is onto something!!!The ropes should be attached to the bars and not the shoulder straps. Ian. It must be an optical illusion I have filled my gallery with lovely pics of the Vortex for you to laugh at...I mean look at. Unfortunately I've had no success adding photos to the post Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Deno how do I veiw your album? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Deno how do I veiw your album?Dave http://www.paramotorclub.org/forum/albu ... er_id=1165 Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Deno how do I veiw your album?Dave Just select album in the box on the top right of the screen. Then users personal albums. Then select my name...its at the end of the list on page 2. Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Thanks chaps, after viewing the pics I can now say, I have not got a clue! not helpfull I know but I cant see what the problem is, what size is the harness? Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Thanks chaps, after viewing the pics I can now say, I have not got a clue! not helpfull I know but I cant see what the problem is, what size is the harness?Dave. I don't actually know. It doesn't say anywhere. I'm guessing its a medium. I'm 5' 8" 11 stone 4 lbs and it feels snug enough. I'm not going to fall out of it. Maybe the fact that the shoulder straps are as tight as they will go means that it a large...I don't know. I guess thats the peril of buying second hand gear. Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Thanks chaps, after viewing the pics I can now say, I have not got a clue! not helpfull I know but I cant see what the problem is, what size is the harness?Dave. I don't actually know. It doesn't say anywhere. I'm guessing its a medium. I'm 5' 8" 11 stone 4 lbs and it feels snug enough. I'm not going to fall out of it. Maybe the fact that the shoulder straps are as tight as they will go means that it a large...I don't know. I guess thats the peril of buying second hand gear. Dene that was my line of thinking, if it is a large it may not have the range of adjustment a medium may have, mine is a medium and if I pulled the shoulder straps tight my shoulders would be much closer to the backrest than yours are, you are basicaly the same hieght and a little lighter than me wich makes it more confusing Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 I just did the hang test again and got the wife to push in the center of the prop. She could push the cage/prop to near vertical with a gentle one handed push. She is a petite 5" and not a Russian shot putter, so I don't think I will have much to worry about in flight, in fact I may have to move the hang point forward a hole...back to where it was originally. Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 But did you get her to make Paramotor noises when she did it? SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 But did you get her to make Paramotor noises when she did it?SW No but she often makes a whining noise...does that count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Nice one! SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 this thing of mine is heavy pete so i think i am the lightest one can be on this everything is set right but was still tiltin back , its he original harness and no modifications made, i was told by walkerjet to either use a lighter machine or put some weight on. or iff possible extend the board under the harness seat, which i would have found difficult to do. the last thing said was bulk up the bottom half of the harness, as it already had a harness cussion at the back of it, maybe 1 inch thick , i split it and made the bottom half three inch and left the top half 1 inch. this is the only option i was left with which works fine not a days bother now. its strange but in every pic i have seen of these machines being flown they always look like they lean back a little more than others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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