deno Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I have fairly recently bought a second hand Vortex paramotor ( which is essentially a Solo 210 engined PAP with a few mods) I have flown it (once) while training with Paul Haxby, but he is not a fan of low hang points so he fitted an Apco high hang point harness for me to try, with a view to converting it to high hang points in the future. I have just done a hang test with the standard PAP low hang point system, but the prop seems to be angled quite far back, (about 25%) rather than the 15 to 20 degrees that I have read it should be, even with the hang point moved the the most inboard holes on the bars. Is there anything anyone can suggest to get the prop more vertical? or will it be not too much of an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Deno Are there any adjustable straps by the sides of your waste, which go round your lumba? (lower back) For fine adjustment I tighten mine, which pulls the pilot forward a little, and stops the harness rubbing the frame too. Not all harnesses have them fitted, so failing that, heavy boots and pork pies work well ! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks Dave. I have just tried tightening the side straps, but it didn't seem to make much difference. If I shuffle all the way in to the seat things get worse and the cage tilts back to about 30% !! I guess I may just be too light...I do weigh over 11 stone though! I think I'll need to wear diving boots! Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks Dave.I have just tried tightening the side straps, but it didn't seem to make much difference. If I shuffle all the way in to the seat things get worse and the cage tilts back to about 30% !! I guess I may just be too light...I do weigh over 11 stone though! I think I'll need to wear diving boots! Dene You will find that the pap does lie back when doing a hang test. If you have it set on the rear holes (for a light pilot ) you will find that when you are flying it will be pushing you forward a lot and trying to tip you out of the harness. If you can get a friend there when you do the hang test get in the harness properly get him to push forward on the centre of the prop and you will find that it does not lean back now. Get it set somewhere near like this and then do your final adjustments using flight tests with some one on the ground looking to see what angle the motor is at on approx three quarters throttle (should be about about 15-20 degrees). Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 i stuck a cussion on the back of the harness which works fine , i placed it towards the bottom of my back so it pushes the motor up , just make sure you secure it properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 i stuck a cussion on the back of the harness which works fine , i placed it towards the bottom of my back so it pushes the motor up , just make sure you secure it properly This is the wrong way to do it, Dont. If you cannot get it right find someone that knows how to set it up for you. Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 i stuck a cussion on the back of the harness which works fine , i placed it towards the bottom of my back so it pushes the motor up , just make sure you secure it properly This is the wrong way to do it, Dont. If you cannot get it right find someone that knows how to set it up for you. Pete b What problems does this create then Pete? You seem pretty emphatic, so I guess there must be a reason. It's not something I've found the need to do myself, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 i stuck a cussion on the back of the harness which works fine , i placed it towards the bottom of my back so it pushes the motor up , just make sure you secure it properly This is the wrong way to do it, Dont. If you cannot get it right find someone that knows how to set it up for you. Pete b What problems does this create then Pete? You seem pretty emphatic, so I guess there must be a reason. It's not something I've found the need to do myself, BTW. It may not cause/create a problem but in my view it is not the way to go about it Cure the problem If your handbrake on the car does not work would you just leave it in gear and put a brick under the wheel? If the lock was broke on your front door would you just wedge a chair behind it? I does not take long to do thinks correctly, unless you are too lazy or too tight to do so. Pete b ps no offence meant but things can/do and will go wrong, believe me I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Anything you do to your Paramotor that is outside of manufactures recommendations is likely to void your insurance in the event of a claim against you. Unless of course you call the insurance company and let them know you have a pillow stuffed down the back of your harness and they are happy to continue to keep you insured of course. I also think you have to be SOOOOOO carefull when modding (more so when the harness is involved) Leave it well alone I say. If you cant get the motor set up correctly for your weight, call the people who made it. If the advice they give does not work you either have a problem with your motor, or the motor has a problem built in. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Simon The Walkerjet that Leoibb flys probably has less built in problems than most. However, I do see the point you make and agree that care is needed re. thrustline. Pete First gear and brick under wheel. Sounds familiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Simon The Walkerjet that Leoibb flys probably has less built in problems than most. However, I do see the point you make and agree that care is needed re. thrustline. Pete First gear and brick under wheel. Sounds familiar If you can't fix it with baler twine, mole grips and a lump hammer, it can't be fixed, eh Dave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 well i cant get the thrust line right without it it hangs too far back and i have tried all the obvious. these harnesses are cussioned to begin with so all i have done is put more material in it at the bottom and i dont have a problem no more. so i fail to see how it can be such a problem, if it was surely it would have shown by now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 yes if your handbrake goes, you would put it in gear and stick a brick under the wheel. and also if ya lock didnt work ya do shove a chair behind it, these are temporary but do work. the problem i have is unfixable, or should i say if i eat a lot of pork pies then it might be ok, but i aint prepared to do that, im happy with my weight. so pete if you know what not to know it tels me you know what to do i would welcome ya advise, not the obvious tho which i have tried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 yes if your handbrake goes, you would put it in gear and stick a brick under the wheel. and also if ya lock didnt work ya do shove a chair behind it, these are temporary but do work. the problem i have is unfixable, or should i say if i eat a lot of pork pies then it might be ok, but i aint prepared to do that, im happy with my weight. so pete if you know what not to know it tels me you know what to do i would welcome ya advise, not the obvious tho which i have tried With out seeing a close up picture of the arms and harness I cannot suggest the cure for your problem. Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I have a PAP with the low hangpoint arms and did a hang check to set mine up, have you tried moving the hang position to the holes nearest the motor? if so and its still hanging too far back then either two things are happenening, you are jimmy crankies twin brother or you have a problem with the harness. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Simon The Walkerjet that Leoibb flys probably has less built in problems than most. However, I do see the point you make and agree that care is needed re. thrustline. Pete First gear and brick under wheel. Sounds familiar If you can't fix it with baler twine, mole grips and a lump hammer, it can't be fixed, eh Dave? Yeah. Something like that Phil. Found the answer though. Only buy stuff that doesn't break these days . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 I have a PAP with the low hangpoint arms and did a hang check to set mine up, have you tried moving the hang position to the holes nearest the motor? if so and its still hanging too far back then either two things are happenening, you are jimmy crankies twin brother or you have a problem with the harness.Dave. Thanks for the info Guys. I am a little bigger than Jimmy Crankies twin brother but not much I am trying to add a photo of the hang test, but I'm not having much luck Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 either two things are happenening, you are jimmy crankies twin brother or you have a problem with the harness.Dave. LOL!!! Don't want to upset you or spoil any long held beliefs but wee jimmy cranky was not all he seemed to be. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 either two things are happenening, you are jimmy crankies twin brother or you have a problem with the harness.Dave. LOL!!! Don't want to upset you or spoil any long held beliefs but wee jimmy cranky was not all he seemed to be. Ian. No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 I've just spent 2 hours trying to get a photo of the hang test into the forum, with no success I've managed to put a photo in my gallery, what do you think? does the angle look ok considering its a static test? Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I've just spent 2 hours trying to get a photo of the hang test into the forum, with no success I've managed to put a photo in my gallery, what do you think? does the angle look ok considering its a static test? Dene Can you get some one to push on the centre of the prop to check if the angle then decreases, if not test fly it and get them to check the angle under power. I would not say that that angle is excessive if it decreases with thrust. Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 I've just spent 2 hours trying to get a photo of the hang test into the forum, with no success I've managed to put a photo in my gallery, what do you think? does the angle look ok considering its a static test? Dene Can you get some one to push on the centre of the prop to check if the angle then decreases, if not test fly it and get them to check the angle under power. I would not say that that angle is excessive if it decreases with thrust. Pete b Thanks Pete I'll try that tomorrow (weather permitting) Dene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 It is a little far back by the looks of things. As Pete says, if you were to simulate the thrust in the center of the prop you may find its OK. Just out of interest do I see that you have a Parajet set of blades on your Pap? SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 http://paramotorclub.org/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=727 Above is the link to the picture. You will need to be logged in to click it. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 It looks like the motor is dropping back from your shoulders. Can you tighten the shoulder straps any more? Ian. Here's the pic - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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