paramotor instructors

[Guest]

these instructors are they certified bhpa or just instructors cos they know a thing or two?

[Guest]

All of the information (including the course structure) is contained on this forum if you read it.

To answer the question though... They are expereanced PPG pilots who who have successfully completed a PMC instructors course. All will become fully insured before teaching any TP's (trainee Pilots)

SW

[Guest]

i see , because i dont really understand the bhpa , then excuse me for soundin thick but . why didnt they just go the bhpa route? surely it would be more credible? or would it? it would be good if someone could explain it in laymans terms. the other thing i fail to understand is how can you get insured to teach without a recognised rating? i suppose i am relating it to me maybe not havin a licence to drive but i am teaching driving, who would insure me? no one i dont think.

another one is that if i speak to bhpa members they say why it is good to get ratings and then when i speak with people without ratings then they have a different view of bhpa so i really aint a clue, so come on boys educate me on why and why not get rated

[Guest]

Leo, I've read your posts on this forum and have come to the conclusion that you are either i) a bit thick (as you stated here), or ii) a wind up merchant. Until tonight I thought it was the latter, but now I'm not so sure...

You ask for people to educate you on training and the pro's and cons of the BHPA route to certification, but as Simon states in his post above, everything you need to know is already on this forum in one post or another. All you have to do is read and re-read and, maybe, you will learn something. To be honest you have brought the same subject up on several occasions but for one reason or another seem to have ignored the advice passed on to you. You really should take it onboard because there is a lot of good knowledge on this forum and you really could benefit from it, instead of asking the same question again and again.

As for your first post on this subject this evening, well I think you are being more than a little disrespectful to the people currently working hard to gain their PMC rating. Trust me when I say that they are not people who are "just instructors cos they know a thing or two", but people with an immensely deep understanding of the sport and the technical aspects contained therein. People such as Norman have put together an incredibly detailed training syllabus and manual, Piers Dent is currently across in Airvault overseeing the instructors and how they are teaching their pupils and Paul Haxby is en route to oversee the whole process. This results in a strong and robust programme that is going to benefit the paramotor flyers of tomorrow. It also means that insurance brokers such as OnRisk are going to offer comprehensive cover to flyers of all age and ability. It may not be the BHPA programme that you are so fond of quoting on here, but it is every bit as good if not, as I suspect, better.

Rather than post on here can I kindly suggest that in future you read the answers to your old posts and absorb them before asking the same question again? This isn't a criticism of you, just a bit of advice.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Guest

[pete_b]

i see , because i dont really understand the bhpa , then excuse me for soundin thick but . why didnt they just go the bhpa route? surely it would be more credible? or would it? it would be good if someone could explain it in laymans terms. the other thing i fail to understand is how can you get insured to teach without a recognised rating? i suppose i am relating it to me maybe not havin a licence to drive but i am teaching driving, who would insure me? no one i dont think.

another one is that if i speak to bhpa members they say why it is good to get ratings and then when i speak with people without ratings then they have a different view of bhpa so i really aint a clue, so come on boys educate me on why and why not get rated

What do you not understand about the BHPA

I am and have been a BHPA member for the last four + years and I will stay a member but I do not want to become a BHPA instructor WHY just because I don't feel like it (My choice)

You cannot as I understand it get insurance to teach unless you have gone through an approved syllabus for training which has been scrutinised by the insurance company and approved, which the PMC instructors course has been.

Rating or not you can get insurance BUT if you do get a recognised rating then when regulation comes (and it will at some time) you will be one step ahead.

Pete b

[Guest]

well we can go along with a bit thick if it makes you happy wooden.

i have read and re read the posts and the words are clear, but what is not clear is this. i have spoke with bhpa members and there opinion is not good of this course, so call it my nature or thickness but why would they have bad opinion. now i assumed maybe insurance reasons, but no because pete has covered that one, so this is the only reason i am a little bit unsure, simply because some bhpa people say ohhh no you need to be bhpa rated not go the other route. who would i contact to get a clear understanding of this? preferable a neutral person

[pete_b]

Don'T just take there word for it find out more for your self .

Are the things they are saying true?

Can they prove it?

If the are saying the PMC training course is not as good as the BHPA where did they get to see the PMC syllabus?????

Pete b

Dont be a sheep and follow, lead and be a ram

[Guest]

i know which is why i ask on here tryin to gain an understanding of both , because i didnt get answers worth much off them i assumed possibly insurance was the problem but with the course offered here that is also cleared up

i suppose i ought to have asked what has this more than the bhpa or what has the bhpa more than this, but i assume it dont work like a list why that is better than this for this reason. i know the training is right with who is doing it

[frazer1981]

It appears to me that some 'die hard' bhpa members are not up for change within the sport. Others, like the PMC, want to take the sport forward, making it more widely availiable and competitive whilst keeping it safe and possibly making it even safer. In my eyes it can only be a good thing having more options to look at when it comes to paramotor training and at the same time knowing that, whatever route an individual takes, he or she will be competent and can only be a better pilot for it.

The bhpa members you are speaking to leo are of course giving you there opinions. It maybe similar to a few months ago when i posted a comment asking what wing is best. I got a variety of replies all stating that the wing they used was the best but then of course they would otherwise they wouldnt be using it in the first place!

There will though come a time where you and only you can make the decision. Im sure whatever way you choose though will be right for you.

[Guest]

yes cheers and i agree with you

[Phil_P]

Leo, I'm going to try and answer this in as unbiased a way as I can.

The BHPA have a well recognised training system in place, however, there are those who, for one reason or another would rather not go down the route of BHPA qualification.

As I see it, the PMC has set up a new sylabus and training system, to provide an alternative to the BHPA route.

There are those within the BHPA who argue that the PMC have just set themselves up using arbitrary standards and selecting those that want to be involved as instructors, and set standards to suit(a sort of paramotoring nepotism if you will).

The PMC argue that their course is well structured and meets the standards required in order for an established insurance company to provide cover, both for instructors and students/newly qualified.

There has been quite a lot of ill feeling on both sides of the fence (BHPA/PMC) regarding this whole training and qualification thing, and the result has been some extremely polarised opinions on the subject. Not to mention some quite unpleasant words exchanged.

What you need to do is look at the course content from the two groups, meet some of the instructors involved and preferably observe some of their training, and make your own judgement about what route suits you best. If you are thinking of becoming an instructor, again, you need to consider which group you think heads in the direction that suits you best, and perhaps also consider the sort of organisation that you would like to be connected with.

I am in a similar boat to you (perhaps a LITTLE further on), in that I am just starting to fly paramotors, but would like to be involved in instruction. I would have liked to have become a PPL instructor, but the requirements, even to teach within a club environment are ridiculously strenuous (understanding jet engine systems for example). I am quite lucky now that it would seem that I can follow a slightly simplified route to join the BHPA, as I have enough hours and flying experience, so that I will just have to pass the required exam. So now it looks like I have a similar choice to make. I suppose there is no practical reason why someone couldn't get training qualifications under both regimes, as from what has been said, they are not trying to compete, simply provide a degree of choice.

Phil

[huffhuff]

I have to agree with Wodens on this one Leo, you do ask the same questions over and over again. Not just on this forum, but others as well.

I think just like anything else, there are various ways and means of achieving a goal. SCUBA diving, you can go PADi or the alternative. Shooting, you can go BASC or CA. For obvious reasons there is never just one choice on how to train for something (generally anyway).

Think of it this way Leo. If you want an extension on your house, you get a few quotes, meet a few tradesman and make your decision that way (I'd hope you don't just take the first that comes along - unless recommended of course). You then need to factor in things like cost, general feelings on meeting the tradesman, seeing a portfolio or existing work. These are personal things that only you can decide with.

Ultimately, the decision is yours. In a sport with various routes, only you can choose which road to go down as it is based purely on personal judegment (for want of a better word). Asking the same question over and over isn't helping you. Get out there, meet your BHPA guys and talk to them, see them in action. Then go see Simon and the other instructors at Lambourne and the PMC, talk to them, see how they operate. Factor in everything and you will end up with a decision.

We can't make your mind up for you. Obviously, you ask a hardened BHPA member - they will say BHPA is the only route to take (otherwise they'll be going it on their own). You ask Simon, Norman or anybody else PMC and they will be a tad biased just the same. Similarily, you go to one part of Glasgow and say who should I support - they will say...RANGERS. If you go to the other side and ask, CELTIC would be the reply.

[jonnorton]

I would imagine it is still being tweaked as the first course is running, but will the PMC trainee pilot syllbus be available on here at some point? I feel that might go towards answering some of the questions people have.

[norman]

Hi John,

Very perceptive of you, that is exactly what is happening. We have been using the system to verify that it works properly in practice and will make whatever adjustments are required. First reports refer to typos and a couple of order changes.

I have tried to explain to people what we are doing but they simply refuse to listen and would rather plod on with the old scratched record. I find this rather exhausting and am not prepared to pander to the doubters and nasayers.

Both Piers and Paul are two of the most conscientious and professional aviators I have met in my travels. They both stand head and shoulders above the crowd for their approach to flying, their skills and their professional diligence. I fully intend retiring after my goggles mist with my pink skin intact. Do these people SERIOUSLY think that we would make a bodge job of this task?

The manual, the syllabus and the entire system will be made available in the fullness of time when we are good and ready, not when people who have no energy or interest invested in it decide they want to have a bone to chew on.

[Malcs]

Well said Norman, it does get rather irritating when you are doing your very best and people try to prevent you from reaching your goals! I've not met Paul but I met Piers, he flew over as I was attempting a take off and then landed and gave me some great advice. I can't imagine for one second that the chap I met would put his name to anything unless it was tip top and professional.

There do seem to be 2 very divided camps in this sport in the UK, what a damn shame that is!

[norman]

Thanks Malcs,

What makes it even stranger is that we are all about a millimeter apart and have similar objectives. I would have thought that choice is a fine thing and that lack of it tends to breed complacency, high prices and poor value. Wouldn't you think that the sharper element would welcome a little healthy competition?

[jonnorton]

Thanks for that Norman,

For the record I am neither a doubter or naysayer; not sure if that was aimed at others or myself included? I asked the question simply because I thought that those with all the questions may benefit from the answer. The answer being (as I understand it) that if people will be patient they will probably get their answers without having to ask the questions in the first place.

I can fully understand why releasing the syllabus should not happen until all involved are completely happy with it. From posts here and on other forums I am sure there are people out there, who for whatever reason, will try to find fault.

Jon

[Guest]

hello chaps sorry if i do your heads in and miss bits lol , totally clear to me now i do understand that is the individuals choice, ya see for some reason i was under the impression that bhpa was the top and only thorugh them you could go, but clearly now this isnt so , so again sorry if i rubbed ya up a bit but i get it now. we all get there in the end some some take longer than others lol

[norman]

Jon,

Not at all, sorry if it came across that way - it was just me having a rant at some of those I come across at another place occasionally. In truth it is very, very few but they are persistent. I should know better than to bother really but I do like to try and garner other points of view and challenge perceptions here and there. It shouldn't come as a surprise that some hold dogged views. Perhaps mine are similarly canine? Its a good job we don't all see the world the same way eh...

[Malcs]

Of course competition is a great thing especially where skill and safety techniques are concerned. Without it a single organisation would stagnate and leave us vulnerable, hopefully PMC will cause BHPA to look at their own syllabus and make them up their game and vice versa. Nobody was shouting about it when BMAA were invloved so why are they complaining now apart from the obvious fact that someone might actually be making an effort to do something better than them. Personally I would rather go with an organisation that specialises purely in the sport I'm doing, I have no interest whatsoever in floating over a hill or flying a fixed wing glider!

I look forward to see the outcome of this current excercise and wish you Norman and co evey success with it, I'll happily be fodder another time, not sure if I'm cut out to be an instructor but nice to have the skills to be!

Malc

PS: Where's the bloody weather gone?

[Guest]

thats a very good point that the bhpa dont have a specialized area for paramotors, and i too do think there needs to be a specialized area for paramotors altho very similar to paragliders it is different and it needs to be treated as such

[norman]

Guys,

Its important to state here that the PMC is not BHPA bashing nor trying to set up an Association that can compete with said organization in the supposed rush to dominate and control the sport. I don't believe that Simon has the desire nor the resources to do so if he wanted to. Who wants to be a buearocrat or administrator? I certainly don't and see few if any around here who do. I like flying, writing, designing courses and producing training material, not working out how to stuff another organization or satisfy edicts from EASA or the CAA, life is too short.

Let's just let the BHPA get on with what it does best, like all players in any market place they must expect competition, the lack of it is unhealthy as has already been stated here by others.