bathboy Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 Paul,I'm happy to fill the form in for my near miss as there is no reporting system in place in Saudi. I've read a few references to the incident you had but don't know what it was. Is explained on the forum somewhere? Alan Hi Alan, Eventually I found it in under http://paramotorclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1465 with others. Sorry it took me so long. One of the joys of the information overload... I think it's a good idea to fill a form in for all incident. From the response I got they are happy to receive any incident form. Also, would it be possible to do one about the crash landing that caught fire http://paramotorclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2209? It mentions steel generated the sparks that caused the fuel to ignite. I was wondering how aluminium or titanium would react in the same situation. My guess is titanium would cause more sparks and aluminium a lot less or none? Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Paul, Just answering your earlier point, yes I would report an incident through the BHPA system that I felt has lessons to be drawn from it. They will do the right thing with it for everyone's benefit. Now that we are firmly established in the 21st Century it would be great to follow the whole process online with the report being sent to the end user (the BHPA as they analyse and investigate on behalf of the AAIB where appropriate) and other interested parties. Here is an example of a USPPA report, visible to all and completed on line. With all reports de-identified they are available for display. The only ones missing would be those who's originator has specifically requested his report not be made available. As I think may have been said elsewhere, the BHPA publish some of their incidents in Skywings but not online. 'Nothing insular or sinister in this, I understand that they do it for internal reasons more connected with systems. If I gave the impression I thought they were being 'closed and insular' in that respect then I was being less than fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uri Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Hi Everbody. I have read much on forum of this topic. BHPA, PMC, BMAA etc. Who is right to make report of incident. This is good debate but are we serious? I hear from friend that XXXXXXX has very bad accident at Christmas with big injury. Simon W tells friends and shows pictures but is saying 'keep quiet - no report!'. Is this how we going to operate? Do we report all or just ones Simon is liking? Who will take serious if we do like this? XXXXXX - hope you recovering well. I broke pelvis in pg accident 6 years past. Took 4 month to get well but ok now. best wish Uri Edited to preserve privacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Nice try Francis - it don't work. Uri with faltering English, perfect grammar and spelling. Not even subtle. Insinuating that Simon (away on expedition) has encouraged XXXXXX to suppress a report is a scurrilous and cowardly accusation. He was flying independently in Scotland at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uri Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 First, I am not Francis. Who is he? Second, I am from Ukraine not moon. We have spell check. Thanks for comment on grammar. If my post is false, I remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Hi Everbody.I have read much on forum of this topic. BHPA, PMC, BMAA etc. Who is right to make report of incident. This is good debate but are we serious? I hear from friend that XXXXXXX has very bad accident at Christmas with big injury. Simon W tells friends and shows pictures but is saying 'keep quiet - no report!'. Is this how we going to operate? Do we report all or just ones Simon is liking? Who will take serious if we do like this? XXXXXX - hope you recovering well. I broke pelvis in pg accident 6 years past. Took 4 month to get well but ok now. best wish Uri Edited to preserve privacy The reason Simon said not to say anything is because the pilot involved asked him to. It is the responsibility of the pilot involved to submit the report not a friend (or any one else) who was 200+ miles away at the time and did not witness the said accident. If the pilot involved decides not to file a report that is up to him NO ONE ELSE It might not be the right thing to do It may be a stupid thing to do It may be illegal not to do But you nor I can make him, and putting in a report from hear say will help no one and may make things worse for the reporting system Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcs Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Don't fan the flames Pete! Ukraine my arse, who holds the big red button on here at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 That would be myself and a couple of others Malcs. I am not inclined to remove the post as it is true and we should never be afraid of the truth. I understand that the pilot concerned is in the process of talking to the AAIB and will probably end up talking to the BHPA as well if appropriate. For anyone considering filing a report - try to remember that the AAIB do not regard themselves as some kind of police force, they are there to investigate accidents and hopefully help prevent them in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Posted deleted after new information arrived from the AAIB. Please watch this space for an update. 15:10 Monday 23rd March Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Damn? We're in March already? I was tired last night but didn't realise I slept for a whole month xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thanks Outcast. For the record: I think Francis is one of life's characters, he doesn't just think outside the box - he doesn't know what a box is. He is very knowledgeable and has everyone's interests in mind when he pursues what he believes in. He was quite right with his assertions in a number of respects, wrong to the point of utterly lost in others. But then that is just my opinion. As waspish as he sometimes is, I am glad that he is there as the world would be a more dull and boring place without him. Congratulations on your engagement Francis from the Paramotor Club Forum! Health and happiness to you both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) As discussed earlier in this thread I have been in coversation with the AAIB for a while over accident and incident reporting procedures. I asked for clarification on some of the issues and commented that there was not a lot of information 'out there' about the establishment of the BHPA as the accident and incident first point of contact advice. I have just received a letter from David King, the Chief Inspector of Air Accidents which I would like to share with you. He is keen to ensure that we in PPG are all aware of the correct procedures. The emphasis (bold) is mine. "THE NOTIFICATION AND INVESTIGATION OF PARAMOTORING ACCIDENTS An Agreement exists between the Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) and the British Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association (BHPA) that details the policy and procedures to be followed in the notification and investigation of accidents and serious incidents occurring to Hang Gliders, Paragliders, Self- powered Hang Gliders and Paramotors. The scope of the Agreement is restricted to the investigation of accidents and serious incidents as defined in the Civil Aviation (Investigation of Accidents and Incidents) Regulations 1996. The sole objective of any investigation of an accident or incident under this Agreement is the prevention of accidents and incidents. It is not the purpose to apportion blame or liability. With regards to the notification of accidents and incidents, the Agreement states that pilots should report all occurrences to the BHPA. Minor incidents or accidents that do not involve fatalities or life-threatening injuries will be recorded and dealt with by the BHPA. Accidents involving fatalities and/or life-threatening injuries, as well as being reported to the BHPA, must be reported to the AAIB. The Regulations also detail the requirement to inform the local Police of any accident or incident. It is highly likely that the Police will not be immediately interested in minor accidents or incident; however, it is important that they are informed, without delay, of any accident involving a fatality, serious injury or damage to third-party property. The Agreement then discusses the conduct of any subsequent investigation and publication of timely safety messages and reports by the BHPA." Further to this, if you have an incident or accident that falls outside the descriptions given above that involves: Equipment failure or malfunction, Any other issue that may save your fellow fliers from potential accident or serious injury,Information that may assist the equipment manufacturer in informing their customers/operators of flaws or weaknesses.' .... then please submit an Incident Report to the BHPA. Information gleaned (from the submission) may help the community avoid your encounter and correct the source of a problem. You will find the report forms on the BHPA website and if you have concerns or queries of any sort about your submission, talk to Dave Thompson at the BHPA on the numbers provided above. He is there to help and is friendly, discrete and professional. Do the right thing and if in doubt - ask. The only stupid question is the one one you don't ask! Edited March 9, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Its great news that the BHPA seem to be reacting to our concernes SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The BHPA have updated their report form and rectified the broken link. Here is a link to the form referenced now to the BHPA site.. BHPA Incident Report Form. BHPA Technical Officers: 01937 585587 or 01792 469244 BHPA Office: 0116 261 1322 Fax: 0116 261 1323 email: office@bhpa.co.uk web: www.bhpa.co.uk AAIB (24 hours): 01252 512299 Additional News - the BHPA are developing an online report form for Incident Reporting which should come live sometime soon.... Source - Francis Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Nothing other than an observation but.... I sent my accident report in to the BHPA with a read receipt and the comment 'please click the read receipt so that I know you have received this' early last week, as did Pete as I understand it. I have not had a read receipt or indeed any conformation or contact from them at all. I may be being picky but unless I know that it has been received I dont know that my legal duty has been procesed. It pains me to say it, but by passing the system and going to the AAIB directly would have eliminated this problem. If I hear nothing in the next few days I will do just that to cover my arse. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hi Simon, Not all email applications have the 'read reciept' functioinality. Outlook, outlook express and a few other 'mainstream' mail cleints do - but not all. More and more people are using web based email, generally that does not have the ability to accept or reply to read receipts or it is disabled for bandwidth reasons. There are a few sites out there that offer a free email tracking service that works slightly differently to the read receipts, but will give you a fairly accurate answer to whether it has landed in their inbox. I have used them before, but never to happy about sending my email through a third party for privacy/security reasons. However, this does not make the fact you have had no reply any better or justified. How do they expect us to use the system if we don't know if it is working? A courtesy (even general automated) email would be nice for clarification of email receieved. Especially when it is of this importance really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 All good points. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I have just contacted the BHPA, Mark Dale is on Holiday but some one else says they have received two submissions by E-mail (mine and Simon's I think) and will confirm this by post? (snail mail). As far as posted reports nothing there yet. I think that this system is flawed as regards the receipt/acknowledgment goes and will be looking in to it. Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Just an update on this, Today at 16:30, I got an e-mail confirmation from the BHPA office that my report had been recieved. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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