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BHPA incident reporting


bathboy
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An update on my incident that I eventually reported using the BHPA reporting system.

Although I wasn't a member, they have sent me proof they receieved it and another blank incident form and envelope to make it easier to report another.

I think this is great service, especially to a non-member.

Cheers

Paul

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Here is the link to the BHPA's incident reporting form. At first glance it looks like you download it then post it off.

This information comes from the top of the form - it deals their recommendations with what they consider to be reportable.

Reportable incidents are those which:

1. Involve injury, whether to participants or others.

2. Involve damage to property, whether 3rd party or not.

3. May cause an insurance or legal claim.

4. Involve the use of non-standard equipment or techniques.

5. Involve failed or malfunctioned equipment.

6. Highlight safety points or were unusual.

7. You feel the sport may learn from.

Actions after injury or fatality:

1. Administer 1st Aid.

2. Call relevant Emergency Services.

3. Photograph or sketch equipment - do not move or test

4. Take names and addresses of witnesses.

5. Have witnesses write down what they saw.

6. Inform next of kin, or ensure Police do.

7. Send to the BHPA office within 48 hours

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Here is the link to the BHPA's incident reporting form. At first glance it looks like you download it then post it off.

This information comes from the top of the form - it deals their recommendations with what they consider to be reportable.

Reportable incidents are those which:

1. Involve injury, whether to participants or others.

2. Involve damage to property, whether 3rd party or not.

3. May cause an insurance or legal claim.

4. Involve the use of non-standard equipment or techniques.

5. Involve failed or malfunctioned equipment.

6. Highlight safety points or were unusual.

7. You feel the sport may learn from.

Actions after injury or fatality:

1. Administer 1st Aid.

2. Call relevant Emergency Services.

3. Photograph or sketch equipment - do not move or test

4. Take names and addresses of witnesses.

5. Have witnesses write down what they saw.

6. Inform next of kin, or ensure Police do.

7. Send to the BHPA office within 48 hours

That's it! I downloaded http://www.bhpa.co.uk/pdf/IR10_06.pdf - printed it out - filled it in with text and drawings - folded as asked and then used the FREEPOST. Hard to see how they could make it any easier/better way to report an incident.

Cheers

Paul

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I still cant find where to read the reports thought? or the findings of them? Where are they published... anyone know, I do want to read them.

If they are safety issues are they made public do you know?

Or just to its members via its mag? ( I dont know, I am asking )

Just can't seem to find the reports which I would have thought would have been made nice and 'public'.

SW :D

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The best reporting systems are based online.

You would complete the form then press send. Your entry would then hit the screen of (all) the interested parties and be included in an open, searchable database. We have simialr systems in place at work for a variety of different purposes, other airlines have something similar. I am reliably informed that it isn't that difficult to set up.

The objective isn't to collate and squirrel data for privaledged use, it is to disseminate safety related information for broader education and reference. Everone gets to refer to it, manufacturers, pilots, clubs - anyone..

Paper never needs to hit the postbox with a stamp attached. PFM.

Edited by Guest
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I have had a PM, (not sure why not a post here)

but it says that basicaly you need to be a member to access the information.

Which if true 'and I have to say, still no joy finding reports' that is about the worst way to report in my eyes. Threre is a way greater number of PPG pilots outside of the BHPA than in it.

Again, I could be wrong here.

I want everyone to know that this is not a dig at the BHPA, but it is a little bit of dig at the publishing of important info.

Phil, Did they not tell you where you could view it?

SW :D

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I also think that an online system (backed up by) a postal system would work better. The information is already digital then and can by plastered all over the internet with ease.

SW :D

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In hand.

The AAIB have asked the BHPA to collate incident reports. I am in the process of establishing how their system is run and administered and for whom it operates.

If they wish to open it for reasons of safety co-operation, whcih would be good for the sport, then we can colloborate.

If they wish it to remain closed then we need to look at other routes if we subscribe to the view that a reporting system is required for club use.

If you read between the lines you can see the way ahead. It is unlikely that the AAIB would fancy collating data from several sources, they want it alalysed and recommendations made by skilled end users. Hence the BHPA as they are established.

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I find it hard to believe that an organisation like the BHPA could be so bl**dy minded as to only allow access to incident reports by members. What an absolutely disgraceful way to behave. If this is their attitude, then it will absolutely guarantee that I shall not ever become a member!

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Um...

Thats the line you just found there Phil. ;-)

Non of this is proven fact at the moment it may be that its just hidden away somewhere on the site still..

If it is, I think they should without consideration (for safety reasons alone) sending out reports to the Paramotor Magazine, Our site, and as many other sites as they can add to an e-mail list....

The first problem though is the lack of digital files.

It can not be argued that the Internet is the very best way to communicate that exists on the planet and its cheep as chips to use.

I can think of no good reason not too in fact?

SW :D

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Phil,

I see where you are coming from, we see it quite a lot don't we? But we cannot deny that there are some committed people working at Flight Safety and industry standards within the BHPA and a lot of them also are less than delighted at some of the antics that the politico's get up to. That is-by-the by.

I take my stance from what I am used to, BA and Virgin for instance (along with most airlines worldwide) collaborate on matters that affect air safety even though they may be mortal commercial enemies.

We would be less than responsible if we didn't get an array of possibiities on the table before taking our own steps.

Measure three times - cut once?

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Just had a lengthy conversation with the BHPA's Senior Technical Officer Dave Thompson.

He is a friendly and knowledgable guy willing to talk about collaboraation on the safety side. It seems that their online systems (under development) will not be broadly compatable as they tailor information for BHPA internal use, at least that is the way it looks at the moment. Their members do NOT have access to their reports, they are used by their safety department and not released for members use.

What want an online Incident Reporting System with the facility for those contributing to remain annonomous if they wish. Memeber generated Reports will be filed and distributed internally for analysis and displayed (de-identified) for PMC Club members to visit and read. We will probably give access to the system to specific individuals who will analyse the information for the good of safety like the BHPA and the AAIB but our policy is yet to be defined. Co-operation in the safety field across organisations is a good thing imho.

We should end up with a system that can be developed by members into a valuable resource that makes a positive contribution to safety. We will keep it as simple as we can make it so that we don't get mired down in complexity and lose sight of why it is there.

That's what we think - more importantly, what do you think?

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I think.....

a) I am stunned at the fact the reports are not public. For me, it takes away about 80% of the reports use. 'I may be missing something here' but I fear not. I just can not see the benefit in reports that can't get read by EVERY pilot out there.

b) Let's make it happen as you describe Norman as soon as poss! (anyone fancy writing the code?) My normal web geek is working on something huge at his end and wants time to work on it.....

This is a real problem in our sport at the moment, I am not harping on about safety this and safety that, this would form what I would consider to be the basic minimum required to help people stay alive. I actually think that the current BHPA system is counter productive towards safety, take the report that started this thread for example (It was considered by the person who submitted it) to get the required exposure, thus he need not tell anyone else about it, thus no one will ever know about it. I ask myself, would more people have benefited from the information had a message been posted here, or any other - every other forum.?

I will get an Online system of reporting sorted ASAP. We will share our findings with everyone, including the BHPA.

SW :D

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Good points Simon but to be fair to the BHPA they have taken a position based the way they view of the world.

They feel there will be some reluctance in pilots to file reports if they feel their results will be spread for the world to laugh at. I don't take that view and believe that provided reports are de-identified, the guys will do the right thing if they trust and believe in the system. Integrity and trust is everything I'm afraid and it MUST be established from the very beginning.

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Thats fair enough.

Having both will give people the decision, do you want it published (with no ID) or not.

If yes, post it to the system we will put in place.

If you want it to remain a secret for whatever reason send it to the BHPA.

Perfect!

SW :D

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Thats fair enough.

Having both will give people the decision, do you want it published (with no ID) or not.

If yes, post it to the system we will put in place.

If you want it to remain a secret for whatever reason send it to the BHPA.

Perfect!

SW :D

Good idea, but it should be made clear that all incidents must be reported to AAIB via the BHPA. So the choice should be:

If you want it published, report to BHPA and enter on additional system.

if you don't want it published, report to BHPA

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There is no compultion to submit Incident Reports, they are not part of a mandatory (MOR/MIR) reporting system, they are voluntary.

The BHPA collates reports on behalf of the AAIB; if we share them with the BHPA it will be because we choose to for Flight Safety purposes, not because we are being required to do so by either the AAIB or the BHPA.

Please don't confuse internal BHPA edicts with what happens within the PMC folks.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just back from a holiday, so may have missed the pace of this thread.

My thoughts are:

* We all make mistakes, mostly ones others have already made, occasionally we or the equipment find a new mistake!

* The more incidents that are reported (old and new mistakes) the easier trends are to spot.

* Makes no difference to me if reporting is compulsory or not. Stick or carrot? I'd still do it.

* I praised the BHPA as they were willing to accept reports from me a non-member - it was easy - they have full time people to collate the information and shout when they find a problem.

* I don't want to see the detail of every report - why have a dog and bark as well? - I do want them to SHOUT after their safety person finds a problem.

* Collated problems become Safety Notices that are freely available online. IMHO all this stuff is worth reading.

* The Lemmings secretary Tracy reminds me of the SHOUT output

e.g. the latest one http://www.bhpa.co.uk/pdf/safety_notice ... 112008.pdf this is online for easy access to all. I agree that notification could be improved for non BHPA/Lemming members.

Basically - I reported my incident for the same reasons that I give blood, not for personal, but for 'group' gain. Please can others do the same then the 'group' (and me and family) may benefit.

Cheers

Paul

http://www.bhpa.co.uk/pdf/IR10_06.pdf is so easy :)

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Hey Paul, agree wholeheartedly and what you say jives exactly with the approach to safety that we are aiming at with the incident report issue. It would be great to have a single totally non partisan system with contributions from anyone with a whistle to blow or a flag to wave.

It remains to be seen where we will end up. The major issue has to be getting everyone on the same page and I think we are getting there. I have listened to very few pilots who think differently on the issue, again it is the implementation that draws in differing opinion.

Safety is no accident, it takes dedication, care and energy doesn't it?

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Hey Paul, agree wholeheartedly and what you say jives exactly with the approach to safety that we are aiming at with the incident report issue. It would be great to have a single totally non partisan system with contributions from anyone with a whistle to blow or a flag to wave.

It remains to be seen where we will end up. The major issue has to be getting everyone on the same page and I think we are getting there. I have listened to very few pilots who think differently on the issue, again it is the implementation that draws in differing opinion.

Safety is no accident, it takes dedication, care and energy doesn't it?

Totally agree and I'm sure with your knowledge, contacts and motivation we will end up with a better incident system.

Until then, can you/me/everyone encourage all to report an incident using what exists now? http://www.bhpa.co.uk/pdf/IR10_06.pdf

Cheers

Paul

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I think regardless of trends or equipment safety issues, all incident reports should be available. I have learned so much from reading AAIB reports and GASIL, sometimes thinking to myself 'bl**dy hell, I've done that! . By all means make them unidentifiable but please please get the information out to everyone.

The most successful aviators are those who learn from others mistakes.

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A lot of the value of a reporting system vanishes if you as a pilot cannot scroll through the reports online and read them. Even a précis of a de-identified report holds its value if you can look at it and feel the blood drain from your face as you recognise something that nearly happened to you.

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