Radical

Pap Top 80 1250 23.4kgs dry weight, 41.5kgs of thrust with wooden prop. Unit was weighed on calibrated scales at work and tested on Jim Carolan's thrust tester. I presently have a Pap Top 80 1400 but have not weighed it yet. Cheers Steve

Hi Matt The recommended descent rate under a reserve is not to exceed 5.5 meters a second as this is when injuries got a lot worse and the chance of a fatality on landing start to come into play. I found the following website indicating a sink rate of 4.6 to 5.1m/s at 120kgs:- http://www.finsterwalder-charly.de/html ... ung_gs.php This means that at 95kgs all up you should come down slower than that, which is a good thing. I too have an oversized reserve, Apco Mayday 18 with a similar all up weight. The philosophy is that although a smaller reserve will open fully quicker, a bigger reserve will open to the same area in the same timescale and then continue to increase in size. Hiope this of help Cheers Steve

Now sold

The only caveat I'd say is that the 130lb guy would need to be careful with the throttle! Cheers Steve 130lb guy trying to get fit and strong

Hi John I've not flown that wing but found the following review on it indicating it might not be the best wing for a beginner:- http://www.footflyer.com/Equipment/Wing ... _Silex.htm This was written by Jeff Goin who is a well respected voice in the international paramotor community. Hope this of help. Cheers Steve

Your on mate. Would be great to see you. Looking forward to Sunday, which looks like a cracker of a day. Cheers Steve

Hi Dan My style of flying is changing and I really want to get into motor thermalling this year. My logic therefore was that a bigger wing would be better for this. I thought about the likes of the Fusion and Nucleon. Both have higher performance but I specifically wanted to stay at the level of the safest reflex wings. This is because ultimately the biggest determinant in performance is the pilot and I feel more confident to stick it in and push with a wing that has higher passive safety. That left the choice of a Synth 27 or a Revo 26. As I said above, with used wings market availability can dictate and that's what happened here. The Synth 27 came up first. Cheers Steve I am also looking at these two wings (as well as a Fusion) and was wondering, why did you change what appears to be more or less like for like? Dan

Hi there I flew a Revo 24 for 2 years and have just changed to a Synth 27. I agree with Simon, both are great wings and either should be fine. They each have there own idiosyncracies though. The Revo seems to be more efficient if you get the same wing size, so go a size up if you get the Synth. The Revo is significantly lighter on ground handling as well, requiring much less pressure on the A's. The handling feels crisper in the air and the wing tip steering is much more effective than the TST. The Synth's take off and landing are slower and the trimmers are easier to operate. I am told that it rolls less in turbulence but I've only had a few flights so cant confirm this yet. If you are buying new ensure you have a test fly to see which you prefer. If buying used then market availability will dictate. Cheers Steve P.S. This is not a sales pitch for my Revo 24 as it now (hopefully) looks to be sold.

Touche Hope I can get down to see you this year so you can show me how it's done mate. Cheers Steve

Did someone mention lunch?

Hi Matt Unless it's for a new pilot on their first flights, I'm having a job thinking of any. Cheers Steve

Hi there I'd like to add:- Fly with a reserve, repacked annually. Know how to use it when needed. Be prepared to use it when needed. One of those guys might still be alive today if he'd done just that. Regards Steve

Hi Matt In my opinion I cant really see the point of switching from an Arcus 29 to a Revo 26 if you are unable to use the trimmers. It's only with the trimmers out that the reflex kicks in and the speed picks up. I would suggest using whatever finances you have available to upgrade your motor. Another option along these lines might be to contact Paul Haxby at AXB Sports about his upgrade for the Raket engine you already have. He can supply a new frame and prop which would boost thrust considerably and open your options much wider on wing choice. Cheers Steve

Now £850 ono with inspection cert to be sorted on sale. Cheers Steve

Hi there Apologies for the delay in replying. I've flown it at an all up weight of around 90kgs plus fuel. This is made up of 55kgs pilot, 25 kgs motor, around 10kgs for wing, reserve and instrumentation. I got on very well with it but it's time for me to move on as my style of flying is changing. However at your weight of 84kgs I would recommend getting a bigger wing. Cheers Steve

Hi Mikey and nice to meet another "awkward sod" I agree 100% with your statement that "If for some of us they are not needed, its one less thing to worry about surely" If you dont want to fly this system, then dont, that's absolutely correct. You are fully entitled to fly whatever system you choose. However.... I do see an advantage for me in the low hangpoint swinging arm system and therefore have chosen a Pap. I have based this choice on risk and reward. Maybe it was a bit strong to say Michel's opinion is irrelevant but I still maintain that my opinion is more important TO ME. Yours is of course more important TO YOU. Matthieu and Ramon have clearly made their choice for this system as well. All three pilots are exceptional talents who compete strongly at the championships, each seeking the best equipment to suit their different styles. Is this system totally safe? Of course not, what system is? For the record, Michels own words in relation to swinging arm low hangpoint systems follow:- Here are my perceived disadvantages of low swinging arms: - it is like sitting on a barrel, with every change in throttle resulting in a movement in pitch and in roll. - in rough conditions you feel like a rag doll. - you rely on the thrust to give you the correct attitude. With engine off, you are reclined and on landing, the cage often touch the ground before the pilot's feet. - there is more torque transmitted to the pilot. - the machine twists 45 degrees on the back of the pilot on launch. - offset swinging arms are often a weak point on a paramotor chassis' structure. - very difficult to fit an efficient speed bar geometry I have personally never liked that geometry and I am convinced that it is responsible for many pilots not being happy to fly when conditions are not 100% smooth. I also understand some pilots do swear by it. Michel Carnet I also agree with his assessment. So why do I still choose to fly this system? I do like that geometry and the comfort issues he mentions dont bother me in the slightest. The advantages from my point of view are the easiest possible ground handling and a reduction in the effect of torque steer on the wing to such a low level as to be practically irrelevant. I used to fly a Rad MXL and my stats were I made about 60% of reverse launches and maybe 10% of forwards. I also bust 6 props in 6 months. I found this to be soul destroying and almost quit. Now with a Pap I make 99% of all forwards and reverses and last bust a prop in Las Candelas 2009. That was entirely my fault as well for choosing to try in very light and changeable conditions. If I'd been at home I wouldn't have bothered. I also feel that the latter advantage of negating the effects of torque steer on the wing are not to be under-estimated in respect of safety. Path deviation into an obstacle and the possibility of spin through steering inputs whilst counteracting the torque steer must be factored in. Cheers Steve

I meet your Michel Carnet with a Matthieu Rouanet and raise you a Ramon Morillas. Both have been world champions and both fly low hangpoint swinging arm paramotors. At the end of the day though all that is irrelevant, all that matters is your own personal choice. Fly it, try it, if you dont like it fair enough. Just remember that all paramotor designs are a compromise, none are perfect. Choose your poison. Cheers Steve

I would argue (being an awkward sod ) that the hang points on a paragliding harness are not fixed. Basically there is a strap that goes down from one carabiner, across the seatbase directly under the bum and up again to the other carabiner. So when I am standing the carabiners are in a different (lower) position in relation to my body than when seated in flight. I can control the wing during ground handling just by turning my hips, instead of pulling on the brakes. The Pap system also allows me to do this but of course differs in having metal arms. I believe these are needed to transmit the thrust forces, which a paragliding harness does not have to deal with. A fixed low hang point system is precisely that, fixed, by the metal framework. Cheers Steve

Hi Matt The bathroom scales idea is excellent for a ballpark figure. Jim Carolan and Michael (AKA Jabba) based around Alconbury also have a purpose built thrust tester. Not sure how close that is to you. I put my MXL on their machine and got 33kgs but I have seen examples get up to 36kgs. Cheers Steve

Hi there Paramania 24 in yellow, 2 years old, approx 60 hours. Looking for £950 ONO. I will arrange an inspection at my cost on sale of the wing. Baed in Yorkshire Cheers Steve Scruton 01405 769886 steven @ scruton2.fsnet.co.uk (remove the spaces)

Hi there I can confirm that the Revolution 24 is now for sale. Thinking of £1150 ONO. As mentioned previously, 2 years old, around 60 hours and in yellow. Inspections welcome, based in Yorkshire. Cheers Steve Scruton 01405 769886 steven @ scruton2.fsnet.co.uk (remove the spaces)

Fanman is bang on. I started with an MXL and Swing Arcus 4 which worked well and I had some great flights. After a while I wanted to do longer cross country flights in company with others and this was where I found the Arcus couldn't cut it against reflex wings. I couldnt beat them so I wanted to join them. However it was clear that the low thrust from the MXL was a limiting factor on which wing I could fly. I therefore switched to the Pap Top 80 1250 before moving up to the Revo. I suspect you may have to change your motor first before your wing but as I said before, ask around and get advice. One cost effective path, if you are happy with Rad and have a good engine and harness, may be to transplant all the parts into an Arrow or, even better, a Javelin frame matched with the appropriate prop. The prop size makes a surprisingly large difference. Once you've done that give me a ring about the wing. Cheers Steve P.S. Thanks for the compliment Simon, I hope to fly with you guys one day and want to be able to look people in the eye.

Hi Matt Actually just noticed that you have an MXL. It might not be the ideal motor/wing combo. I'd recommend seeking further advice before committing to either wing. Cheers Steve P.S. Flown mine with a Pap Top 80 1250 and 1400

Hi Matt I've got a Revolution 24, 2 years old, in the region of 60 hours, yellow though. I've not advertised it at the mo as I was still debating about how and what might replace it. If of interest we could have a chat. Cheers Steve Scruton steven@scruton2.fsnet.co.uk Tel 01405 769886

Hi there Looking on the Para2000 website shows the Apco Allegra model:- http://www.para2000.org/wings/apco/allegra.html If it is this wing, my specific concerns would relate to its age, 10 years is a lot for a wing, and the fact that a modern wing is safer in design and testing. Crispy means nothing, porosity is the key. Getting it checked out by Aerofix or the Loft would confirm whether the wing is in a suitable flying condition. However this costs in the region of £50 plus postage plus any repairs necessary and may therefore be uneconomic. Even then this does not help in respect of the design. Significant performance and safety advances have been made in the intervening period and the testing procedures are now to a higher standard. Of course it is your choice but IMHO this would not be a step forward from the Go Fly. A better move may be towards a low end reflex wing like the Revolution or Synthesis. Try before you buy though. Hope this of help. Regards Steve