Dave24

Merlin, Paramotors shouldn't be any different. If they adveryise something they know is wrong, they should stop doing so. It's illegal and morally wrong. If one day you find yourself out of pocket and extremely unhappy with a product you've bought, that doesn't deliver on fact-based claims (not opinions) and where critical in your purchase decision, then you might not be so quick to condone the practice of lying to get a sale. Dave

That sounds impressive. What would it be with harness?

The PAP Top 80 looks like the lightest (reported) of the paramotors listed - claimed 25kg and 23.4kg reported (lighter than claimed - why would that be - modifications??). Of course others have electric start, which adds a few kg. Any other Top 80 owners out there happy to add their weight to the discussion? Would be a great help.

I agree with you Tommcb6016. I'm not interested in bashing anyone. I do think jean-christophe has a good idea here about comparing actual weights. For me this is really useful data since I need a paramotor and a list of actual weights are very helpful in narrowing my choice.

We could use Jean christophe's input - for the Special Edition he measured 32.5kg "average" and the SE is 1.4kg lighter than the standard Compact (which would make it 34kg): Parajet Volution Compact - 26kg (claimed) - 34kg (reported) Flat Top 200 - 29kg (claimed) - 29kg (reported) PAP Top 80 - 25kg (claimed) - 23.4kg (reported) - interesting that this is lower Rad Arrow Classic - 17.5kg (claimed) - need data here Javelin Classic - 18.5kg (claimed) - need data here H&E R120 - 23kg (claimed) - 29kg (reported) Fresh Breeze Solo 210 - "from 29kg" (claimed) - 30.4kg (reported) We could still do with data from anyone with a Rad - or from anyone with other versions of the other brands.

You're right Alan, Freesh Breeze (I understand) do say: Weight - from Xkg (which must be why the list I was given says "29+kg" for each Because you can choose hang-points/harness/etc, I think they say that the weight depends on which options you choose. Dave

I understand that there are a few variables that could be included, but comparing your actual (reported) weights to the (claimed) "as sold" weights from my original list: Parajet Volution Compact - 26kg (claimed) - need data here Volution Macro - 27kg (claimed) - need data here Flat Top 200 - 29kg (claimed) - 29kg (reported) PAP Top 80 - 25kg (claimed) - 23.4kg (reported) Rad Arrow Classic - 17.5kg (claimed) - need data here Javelin Classic - 18.5kg (claimed) - need data here H&E R120 - 23kg (claimed) - 29kg (reported) Fresh Breeze Solo 210 - 29kg+ (claimed) - 30.4kg (reported) Looks like H&E (claimed) figures are out (are we missing something?). Let's have some reported data from Parajet and Rad owners. Dave

Simon, I think you're reading this all wrong. I am perfectly chilled. I didn't buy a paramotor which was "30% heavier" than advertised - but I can empathise with the guy on this thread who did. As I said, if I had bought a paramotor and found out that I was mislead on weight - my #2 priority as a novice (maybe not yours as an experienced flyer), I would have been very annoyed (as I said). I can empathise with the guy who bought one and found it to be a big problem. I also said "IF Parajet are misleading people about the weight of their paramotors" (as some people are aluding to in this thread). I said IF, because I understand that this is all based on third hand information. I am not claiming that Parajet, or you, were deliberately misleading people, but IF they, or others, were then that would be wrong. I also said "no more slagging off anyone else's product until you get your own house in order" because I agree with you that this is supposed to be a friendly forum and sport. As someone new to the sport, reading everything on the net and speaking to as many flyers and dealers as possible (to find a paramotor for myself), I do notice it, and there is a lot of slagging going on. Now I know you sell Parajets, but I was still surprised to see you have a go at me rather than at (the alledged practice of) Producers giving misleading figures to get a sale. I was also suprised at how quick you were to invite me "to leave the forum" despite nothing but positive comments since I joined. Remember that everything I say, I say objectively (completely chilled) - my point is if any manufacturer lies about (important) aspects of their product then it is wrong, is illegal and should stop immediately. Do you agree? I'm drawn to the quote: "he said that as soon as the first lies were told re weight/thrust etc, manufacturers, in order to stay competative, also felt that they were forced to lie" To balance: I was also pleased to see Flat Top Dave's comment in another thread that his paramotor weighed as it was advertised. Dave Perhaps there are smilies I should be using throughout...

I had made the decision to buy a Parajet Compact Special Edition (£4,450 - not cheap) because it claimed to be under 25kg (i.e. it claimed to be 1.4kg lighter than the standard Compact which claimed to weigh 26kg). Fortunately I was warned by an experienced flyer that the Parajet figures were "misleading". What you say seems to confirm this. I would have been extremely angry if I had spent all that money and then found that the paramotor was actually 33kg+. If Parajet are misleading people about the weight of their paramotors then this is wrong and they (and people selling them) should be (1) ashamed of themselves and (2) strung up. Look at the Parajet web-site, the advert shows a complete paramotor with harness (including electric start) for between 25kg and 27kg depending on (Volution) model. If this is wrong, then sort it out now. I see a lot of people slagging off Flat Top and it's owner's "outrageous claims". However, I see from this forum that claimed weights for FTs are the same as actual weights. So I say to dealers - no more slagging off anyone else's product until you get your own house in order. Paramotor producers need to get their act together, because lying to make a sale will kill the sport and their businesses. Dave

A friend showed me a list of paramotors and their claimed weights (as advertised on their web-sites). At a paramotor meet it got a lot of cries of horror and suggestions that certain manufacturers be strung up for making false claims. Here are some claimed weights (assuming "as sold" - motor and harness - no fuel). I personally don't know which ones actually reflect reality, so if anyone out there can give true "as sold" figures it would be a great help: Claimed ("as sold" weights): Parajet Volution Compact - 26kg Volution Macro - 27kg Flat Top (converted from lbs) 120 - 21kg 160 - 27kg 200 - 29kg PAP Top 80 - 25kg Ros 125 - 27kg Rad Arrow Classic - 17.5kg Javelin Classic - 18.5kg H&E R80 - 22kg R120 - 23kg Reading the forums allI ever hear about Parajet is that they are "bloody heavy". I don't understand why I see thei comment if they're only 26-27kg. The RAD sounds very low. Anyone know why the claimed weights are so low? Any thoughts? Dave

Doesn't work on my Firefox, but does work on Internet Explorer 7.

Will there be paramotors at this event?

What do you think of your Pap Top 80? Did you try, or consider, any other makes? Would you recommend the Top 80? Is it heavy? Dave

How heavy is it? I understand that it's supposed to be 27kg - which doesn't sound too bad. Perhaps the manufacturer's claims are missing something? Dave

Nigel, Thanks for your input. Can I ask you to say a bit more about two of the points you made: 1. My next motor will not be a heavy one 2. It will probably have high hang points Also; 3. What do you think of Rad? Would you get another, or is it a make you would personally avoid? Dave