Intro and wing question

[Lrenes]

Good morning everybody,

This being my first post I thought I should first introduce myself, so here goes...

Since I can remember I always wanted to fly. As a kid my eyes were always looking at the sky. When I was a student in the early '90s I started paragliding since that seemed like the cheapest way to get airborne. Did that for a few years, became an instructor and tandem pilot and had a blast winching in Holland and mountain flying in the Alps. Later I was able to start taking flying lessons while working in the USA and over a period of time got my CPL with instrument and seaplane ratings. Done about 1200 hours flying all kinds of planes in the past 10 years or so. Now I am itching to go back to paragliding and to learn paramotoring. I have started to get my skills back and did my first 2 flights winching in Holland this weekend. Felt really great!!!

I'll have the possibility to do more winching in Holland and a bit of mountain flying in France during the next months. In September I'll hopefully start my paramotor training in Sweden.

I have been reading through a lot of posts on this forum, and learned a lot. You all seem to be a great bunch and very helpful! So I hope you don't mind me asking a couple of questions every once in a while...

First one: is it possible to have one wing both for paragliding and paramotoring? I'm expecting to buy gear in the near future and if at all possible I'd rather spend more money on a good paramotor than on having to buy two wings. I am not looking for any competition paragliding, or other hardcore stuff. Would the Paramania GTX fit the bill? I'm about 75 kg...

I'd appreciate your comments!

Thanks,

Lawrence

[s1buell_wl]

Lawrence I’m not sure I'm going to be much help due to lack of time these days.

But I bought the Ozone Speedster for just this motor and free flight. However I’ve not been able to test the Ozone on the free flight. Came so close last weekend (@#$%)

What I can tell you. Ozone should change the name “speedster” fast it is not when compared to other motor wings in its class. However it feels more like a paraglider wing to me.

Don’t get me wrong I do a ton of motoring on the wing and it seems to have the glide and it handles the thermals really nice. I fly almost once/twice a week in the winter here.

I have a Dudek Nuc it is a full reflex XC speed machine however I believe the Ozone would thermal better (I have not been able to test it).

I like the agility of the speedster too. I love to get into some low level slalom (tree trimming flights). I often land and the tip of my prop is green from trimming the odd bush.

They tout the ozone as a free flying wing too (ozone.com)

http://www.flyozone.com/paramotor/en/ne ... x-profile/

Blog about it:

http://wildmedic.co.za/on-gliders-and-t ... t-flights/

Over all I’m happy with the wing it does fit my flying style really well.

I’m 80k ppg 107-110 all up (miniplane)

Free flight 90k max all up (all my gear is mountain light weight gear)

[bholleran]

I also have the speedster having changed from the Nucleon, I have free flown it and used the motor with it and it is a very good all rounder. The nucleon is slightly faster but it did not thermal as well in my opinion.

Overall if I was looking for a wing to freefly and motor with I would still choose the Speedster.

It is also much easier launch than the Nucleon.

[Dominicppg]

I met a guy at the Chabre Open paragliding competition in the South of France last year. He was an experienced PPG pilot and was flying his Ozone Speedster in the PG competition for the first time. He mentioned that the Speedster was extremely stable and that it appeared to thermal just as well as the dedicated PG wings around him. He also mentioned that he had flown the Speedster for several years (PPG) and was very happy with it. During one practice XC (PG) flight from le Chabre it became very turbulent and two of the guys he was flying with had collapses in their PG wings and had to chuck their reserves. On the Speedster he experienced no collapses.

Hope this helps.

Dom

[Dominicppg]

I should probably add that I have an Apco dual paragliding/paramotor wing, and it's rubbish at both.

[Henrik_Y]

If you're new to paragliding then you might consider something calmer then a GTX or Speedster, maybe a MacPara Muse with the trimmer risers. They are great beginner gliders that you can grow with, great for free flight and motor and pretty fast too for it's category and it's also very easy to launch.

Don't know what the GTX are but the Speedster is classed EN-C from 24m and up so it's not really for beginners.

I'm a light(65kg) pilot so I got the Speedster 19 and only done two flights so far and those where towing free flights in pretty strong thermic conditions. I think it felt good with good glide and my intention was using it for free flying too and I definitely will as it's very agile and fun and you can thermal with tight turns(depending on size). They say the speedster is slower but that's when cruising straight with hands of, but going around corners and turn fast is where it makes up for it's name.

I put my bet on the speedster as the best allround and most fun glider and that's why I bought it myself.

[Lrenes]

Thanks for all your replies, it is really helpful! An additional question that ties into the previous discussion: are reflex gliders less good at free flying, or better? And why? Is the fact that you can't use the speed system for about half of the trim settings a problem?

Thanks!

[bholleran]

Thanks for all your replies, it is really helpful! An additional question that ties into the previous discussion: are reflex gliders less good at free flying, or better? And why? Is the fact that you can't use the speed system for about half of the trim settings a problem?

Thanks!

On the speedster you can use the speed bar through the full speed range with the trimmers at any setting.

To be honest though, when you are freflying you would normally have the trimmers at full slow, then there is no reflex in the wing it is just a paraglider. If it is really windy you might let the trimmers out a little, but in these cases all normal paragliders (non reflex) will be landing anyway.

[Henrik_Y]

One material difference between PG or PPG wing use to be that PPG wings are heavier to not get worn out as fast under heavier load and they usually have thicker lines and bulky risers with trimmers. Most new PG wings have those smaller risers which are half the width to save both weight and drag so the PPG gliders with the thicker lines and risers has more drag in the air and that's one thing that might make them less efficient.

But as long as you're not into serious hike and fly or free flight XC competitions then it should be fine.

[s1buell_wl]

To date the full reflex wings have about 2/3 the glide of the normal PG its speed vs glide you can not have both. Bad glide translates to more speed. This is the big physics problem in the world of gliding how to archive speed without descent

The Ozone seems to be the closest these days and a good wing for people that want a wing that is good at both. You can use the speed bar all the way through the trim range due to their riser config.

For free flight you close the trims completely. If you have some nice high and need to go open the trims or just hit the speedster as the end result in the speedster is the same.

If your looking for a fast XC motor wing don't buy a speedster get a Dudek Nuc or Apco Force (there are others too I just know these ones well).

Do some reading about reflex. You will see that when in reflex if you use the breaks you will be trying actually reverse the reflex form the wing has taken. Doing this will eventually break down the lamina air flow and cause bad things to happen . Do some reading up on this you will find it interesting I think.

http://www.paraglidershop.co.uk/paramot ... reflex.htm

let me know if this helps.

Cheers

Tom

[Lrenes]

Thanks Tom, that was a brilliant read, very enlightening! I am beginning to see how the Paramania GTX might be great for PPG, but a lot less so for free flight. I'll start looking at the Ozone Speedster. Looking forward to read what your experience is when you get the chance to free fly it!