Opinions of the Flat Top ?

[AltiDude]

Apart from F T Dave, who seems to be impressed with his, could anyone tell me about the Flat Top. I want a unit with a Simonini power plant with good strength. No offense Dave. I always gather from more than one source

Ron

[Farmer_Dave]

None taken Ron. And good luck with your search

[paramotormike]

Hi Ron.

I have flown the unit 3 times now, so not a vast experience with it.

Here are my findings

Good....

1) very strong well made - tough

2) comfortable in flight

3) seat scoops you up on take off

4) lots of power, good to get height

5) double fuel tank option

6) I liked the solid low hang points

7) best cage netting I have ever seen

top quality trike and tandem options

Bad

1) I didn't like the throttle but you get used to it.

2) no cruise control

3) vibration was a bit high on the one unit

4) legs touched lower cage on landing ...take off OK

5) Props sits out from cage a lot.

So thats my thoughts on flying it.

For me its on the list, when my current motor wears out!

Cheers

Mike

[aquatix]

Opinions abound on the internet - almost exclusively from "Superdell", aka "Imasuper" aka Mr 'Dull Scams'. He will tell you the FT is the ONLY way to go and every other wing & motor (that he doesn't sell) is "dangerous junk". He is a convicted criminal, failed business entrepeneur (who owes $ thousands to the IRS) and a god bothering religious nutter of the highest order - who accuses anyone who disagrees with him of being a 'satan worshipper'. He is a pretty good pilot (but posts some dangerous stunts on youtube for the impressionable) and claims to hold all sorts of world records - which is a lie - so you can't trust his over hyped BS opinions of the machine.

Separating fact from fiction, the FT is a good machine although perhaps overpriced compared to its competitors. I would agree with Mike's comments above, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the simonini engine (powerful & reliable) so that side of it is fine.

The FT is essentially a copy of the Walkerjet frame & harness, so extremely strong and probably the best protection available if you fall backwards, face plant forwards or drop vertically 'arse first'..... It would need a pretty hard landing to damage the prop, although it does stick out quite far behind so could catch lines. Super easy to ground handle & launch, with no messing about with strops as it scoops you straight into the harness on take off. Comfortable on long flights with a well positioned hook in point directly in front of the thrust line.

On the downside there is very little weight shift capability, and no built in torque steer countering system - you need to offset the trims or my solution was to mount the reserve on the opposite side (which worked well).

The most important thing though is it hangs low on your back, so not suitable for anyone shorter than average height or it is difficult to run without the back of your legs hitting the fuel tank. This can be improved by simply fitting an extra ground handling strap each side, but no problem if you are over about 5' 10" tall.

PS - it may be worth contacting 'neilzy' on here as he may be selling an almost new simonini engined machine which is also very strong ....

[Farmer_Dave]

Ron

If you want to keep the money in this country and get local backup and servicing, there is a Brittish unit on it's way soon. Aptly named the Bulldog. Drop Clive Bunce an email if you need to know more. I have a sneaking suspicion it will be geared and propped the same as the Flat Top. Could be one to watch. Might be a short wait though. Not sure if they're in full production yet.

Dave

[aquatix]

there is a Brittish unit on it's way soon. Aptly named the Bulldog.

I think you might find it is actually imported from China, although I was speaking to Paul Kilburn about it last week and if I recall correctly he has specified some improvements to the harness and they sound pretty good if you want a high hang point machine. He has them on his website:

http://www.manchesterparagliders.com/

Not actually seen one yet, but I have a sneaking suspicion they are the same as those sold by EC Extreme

http://ecextreme.pl/articles.php?cat_id=3

Their CEO (Damian) is bringing some down to St. Hilaire so I'm hoping to try them out there.

Prices are very cheap (without taxes) if anyone wants me to bring one back ?

£3500 for the EC 33 (new simonini EVO engine, 33Hp !)

Around £3200 for the EC 26 (standard simonini mini 2 plus)

[Farmer_Dave]

Aquatix

Thanks for that link. First time I've seen it. Certainly cheap. I note the advert only states the weight of the engine though. Be nice to know the dry weight etc

On Flattie's weight shift....there has been an update with some wider bars for the hook in points to give more W Shift response. There is a video of Dell performing a wingtip drag, without using brakes, albeit to the right so torque effect will have helped alot. I just wonder if the wider hang points will be a benefit in enabling the pilot to counter torque, being able to shift that much further to one side. What do you reckon ?

Mike...I find the hand piece very usable. I've never hand it slip round in my hand causing loss of power at take off, like one of my mates did. Cost him a prop too, poor bu**er ! The trigger is very light with a good linear proggression too. I dont find the need for cruise control personally. I prefer to fly it rather than have it fly me. And it's right handy to be able to control pitch (in a hurry) when conditions get rough, using your power aswell as brakes. I guess it might be nice to be chauffer driven on a calm evening sometimes though

Dave

[skybound]

The New Bulldog is certainly not from China, as Dave said British made in Oxfordshire but with Italian engines. Our first model is called the Bulldog-Spirit and yes has soft semi-high hang points. Engine choice currently the Polini Thor, Simonini Mini2 and Simonini Mini 2 Evo. They are not quite ready for market yet as we are still in the finial stages of our own harness design. Not looking to flood the market with them just looking to produce a good honest machine in this country with back up and no bull shit. Will post some pictures soon.

Clive

[manchester_paragliders]

I didn't start the made in china bit but did mention the upgrade to the harness, I know its made in the uk as i have 2 on order, a polini thor and a sim evo, seen the prototype in Basshame, France and loved it,

Being 63 kilo's i recon the evo will get me up without a wing.....

[aquatix]

Sorry Paul & Clive - I must have got mixed up in discussion over the several new paramotors on the market. Clearly the Bulldog is British if made in Swindon. Think my ears are a bit deaf after flying with no silencer for weeks. Look forward to seeing it and great to have another UK alternative.

Back onto the Flat Top - Dave, I agree the throttle has a nice linear feel and better than most 'brake handle' types, but don't you find it a bit chunky ? I've got big hands but reckon a smaller person might struggle holding brake handles as well with gloves. Surprised they left out the cruise control button as the throttle is also copied from the Walkerjet, like frame, harness etc down to the Neutrik connectors ....

Not sure how much the wider bar spacing would improve weight shift since you sit so deep inside the bars. I notice that Dell concedes this and offers the Kobra range on his website for those who want weight shift. No compensation for torque-steer either. FT is a good design but (like most) still has room for improvement.

Just a shame about the marketing BS as he sounds too much like a dodgy used car dealer describing every other paramotor as 'dangerous exploding junk' or like 'child's toys' compared to the FT's 10/10 for "safety & tuffness" .....

[Farmer_Dave]

Look forward to trying that one Clive....Keep me in the know !

Flat Top throttle too chunky ? Dunno...I haven't found it so bad but then I did have a Walkerjet before. Also flown 3 or 4 other makes whilst and since learning and still prefer what I have now. One finger on the trigger and grip with the thumb, leaves three fingers free for the brake toggle. Sits in the hand nicely, nothing to snag on lines. Even ran over it in the field with my van.

They all make a noise. They all break. Some more and some less.

Re Dell.. I dont agree with everything he says either. I'm sure the MD of Mercedes has a gripe about Volvo (and vice versa) Wouldn't be of interest to me in the slightest. I'd buy what I want to. I bought what I did for it's combination of safety, power and economy, reliability, and weight 29 kgs. Purchase seemed a little dear but it sips fuel and dont break props. Had a broken bolt dink my prop recently. 130 hours flown so far. Resale value is good. Did some calculations on purchase and running costs on a mates machine (120 cc) flown for 200 hours. Engine rebuild, 4 gearboxes, clutches, 5 broken props and other bits and pieces

Seven Grand almost

Mine hasn't cost me five yet (2 years ago) Is it expensive ? Do some other makes fall to bits ? You decide for yourself. Plenty of youtube videos hold the evidence

[aquatix]

Have to agree with you that build quality and strength is amongst the best, and although new price is high it compares well against others over a few years ownership - a bit like Mercedes. Personally I would like more weight shift and a few minor changes / enhancements to make it the best out there. At the moment I see some great features from other manufacturers but not one package that is perfect (for me) in every aspect.

Guess it is just Dell that puts me off, as a great product should sell itself - not by putting down others who have followed a different design path. He is not an inventor or designer himself, just a salesman flogging a borrowed design (to put it nicely).

One final caveat - the FT is a great package with the simonini engine for bigger people, but I think the FT120 (with Radne engine) is a poor choice. Although aimed at the smaller, lightweight pilot, the frame & harness set up would make it too bulky and cumbersome to use.

[Farmer_Dave]

I've not tried the 120. At 22 kgs it's certainly a light unit and the Raket engine well tried and tested. With the wider hang points I imagine it might be usefull for thermalling for someone who doesn't want to buy a larger wing maybe.

Anyway, we've drifted off a little. The gentleman who started this thread wanted to know about 200 cc Simonini units, and didn't really want my opinion. So sorry for chipping in. I now graciously stand aside.

Dave

[blackbirdyxx]

Ec Extreme Simonini 26, Have one you cant fault the Simo motor, you cant fault the Polish Frame/Harness & cage BUT you get what you pay for.

A saving of over a grand the EcExtreme has got to be worth a look if you dont mind or are capable of making a few minor adjustments.

The EC Simo is a heavy motor,Dry weight you wont get much change from 30kg then you fit a reserve and fill up

Have also flown the Bulldog (prototype) Polini, which I would have swaped for my Ros125.

The Bulldog Chassis & Cage is the way forward, you can see that the thought that has gone into the Chassis/Harness and cage, by someone that must have flown most of the Paramotors on the market, is and I hate the saying 'are second to none' but thats is my opinion.........

The power plant could be of your own choice,(Simo & Polini are a good choice)

My Ec Extreme is a temp Paramotor untill Mr Bulldog gets his arse into gear and gets them out there.

OK so I do also fly a Dudeck Nucleon (NO Compromise)

BBxx

[skybound]

Thanks for the moral support Paul. I must admit its beginning to feel like an eternity since we started this project. The one thing we didn’t want to do is just rush it through for the sake of selling something as that’s just sort term thinking and helps no one, and there’s enough of those machines out there already. The thing is we had to be totally happy with our frame before we could commit to the harness as we didn’t want any elements to be an afterthought. Spent three days at the Dudek factory last week going through the final harness detail and hopefully I will have the final draft in a week or so, then we will check it out in flight to make sure that our characteristics are still working and then commission the first production batch.

Yes you are right I have been fortunate to have flown must of the machines out there and all have good points and some not so good but I think its fair to say it comes down to personal preference, I am sure their will be a few who wont take to the Bulldog but again that’s pilot choice. Car manufactures haven’t produced the ultimate one yet or we would all be driving the same model.

The Bulldog I hope will be received as a machine that demonstrates that some logical thought has gone into its design and that last the few years haven’t been wasted copping up expensive metal.

Clive

[aquatix]

Sounds exciting - and fair play for waiting until you are happy with the design rather than rushing one out and making revisions later. Wish I had the skill & facilities to create my own 'perfect' machine - or even to modify an existing unit....

Once production is started, will it be solely for the Bulldog or will you have engineering facilities to offer repair or modifications to other people's machines ?

[aquatix]

the EcExtreme has got to be worth a look if you dont mind or are capable of making a few minor adjustments.

The EC Simo is a heavy motor,Dry weight you wont get much change from 30kg

I thought most electric start Simonini machines weighed in around 28-30kg, so maybe not too big an issue if the cage is so strong ? What minor adjustments (or improvements) would you suggest for it ? Only seen photo's so far.

At around £3k I am toying with the idea of bringing one back from St. Hilaire - especially if they take a bit less in cash to save taking a demo machine back to Poland .....

[skybound]

We do currently repair other brands of machines although it tends to be for local pilots as they are close and normally known, then becomes a favour for a mate.

Fixing badly damaged things are normally time consuming and costly and can work out cheaper to buy the new part from the original manufacture.

As the demand for Bulldog increases then repair work will have to stop as we have to be loyal to our mark and customers needs. There is only two of us Chris and myself and between us have other flying and engineering business interests so we have to manage our time carefully.

Clive

[blackbirdyxx]

At around £3k I am toying with the idea of bringing one back from St. Hilaire - especially if they take a bit less in cash to save taking a demo machine back to Poland .....

Good luck if you manage to bring one back.

The Cage seems strong enough,3 part and very easy to put together.

mine came with A 2 Blade Helix Prop(same as the FB) Prop covers & a cage Bag.

The adjustments were mainly to do with the harness,it came with an XL Harness( I normally fly with a medium or Large) , you will need to do a thorough hang test to set the harness up,re route the carry straps & bring the karabiner points closer to the shoulders without restricting movement.I would also recomend fitting an engine imobiliser switch because it only come with a battery isolator switch,a few electrical connections had to be replaced and i replaced some of the fuel line.

To my surprise my machine turned up with the whole Frame & cage looking like it was made of Carbon fibre,they call it 3DPT System( 3 Dimensional print transfer,be warned they also do a Marble effect, if it aint heavy enough.

Paul

[AltiDude]

Lots of info. Thanks everyone. Plenty of food for thought

Ron

[subnate]

I wouldn't buy one just for the fact, that I went down to North Carolina this last weekend, and found out that Super dell had just been banned because he would not follow any of the rules. He is the reason we lose flying sights. I couldn't support him no matter how good or bad his machines are. I don't own a machine yet I'm in the process of buying. But please don't support this guy, we lost being able to fly the beaches because of him.

[AndrewD]

I wouldn't buy one just for the fact, that I went down to North Carolina this last weekend, and found out that Super dell had just been banned because he would not follow any of the rules. He is the reason we lose flying sights. I couldn't support him no matter how good or bad his machines are. I don't own a machine yet I'm in the process of buying. But please don't support this guy, we lost being able to fly the beaches because of him.

Talking about him last night and 'him' being the probable reason there are not many flat-tops over here (plus chicken **** welds). It would appear that us 'brits' have damn good eyesight, as we can spot an ar$e from 4000 miles!

[skyraider]

Here is the designer and master builder, I have an F-200 and can vouch for the strength and beauty of this machine. http://www.walkerjet.cz/uk/index.html

Support Viktor,

Marko D

[paramotormike]

Interesting pictures on the Walkerjet website.

If you look at the RR electric, it has what I would describe as, prototype fixed arms?????

Surley about time to update these photos dont you think!

Cheers

Mike

[skyraider]

We back those who impress us.

Today the nuke review by Dell, on his tooth group

"Whoever designed the risers should be beaten to death."

"After a couple runs I couldn't take the nightmare anymore and landed the pig

nightmare of death."

Yeah he's a captain all right, why did I post this, damn I hate myself sometimes.