Hello...again!

[Max]

Hello everyone it's been a long while since I was last on here, so i'll start from scratch again!

Im Max i'm nearly 14 years old, I am completely taken with aviation and have been for many years! Recently I have been looking through every type of flying there is to see if there is any kind of powered aviation I can take up. Paramotoring has been abit of a dodgy situation as some people have said I am too young but others say I am not. Some one once said to me: There are no police in the sky so even if you arn't aloud there is nothing any-one can do about it!

I am a member of the ATC and RAF CCF, a couple of weekends ago I went up powered gliding and really enjoyed it!! I am looking at every option to try and get into the air!! I study aviation in both my cadet groups and have extensivley researched microlighting which I would like to do my license in when I am 17.

I would like to ask a few questions:

1) What are your views on whether or not i would be able to fly?

2) How much would training cost??

3) How much would I expect second hand kit to cost (Im 5,9 about 80kg)

4) Take of landing distance to clear 15m obsatcle?

Thanks for any help!!!

Max

[pegasus1]

Hey Max,

Fantastic to hear from you again and really glad your enthusiasm for flying has not decreased. I think its great that you are learning as much as you can and have joined the relavant groups. I am not qualified to answer your questions but I am sure those that can will very soon. Whatever anyone suggests to you, you must stay within aviation law for your own safety and those around you. Keep on learning and I know your dreams will become reality. You are a pilot of the future. WELL DONE!

[Max]

Thanks for your reply, just another question:

Do I need insurance to fly a paramotor? The BMAA Microlight Magazine said a couple of issues back that you don't is this true??

Thanks Max

[Phil_P]

I would like to ask a few questions:

1) What are your views on whether or not i would be able to fly?

I am sure you would be able to fly, whether anyone will train you at 15 yo to solo, I'm not sure. Perhaps one of the PMC instructors could help there.

2) How much would training cost??

Depends very much on aptitude, and whether you spend time either on your own or with a knowledgable friend doing ground handling. I personally budgeted about £750

3) How much would I expect second hand kit to cost (Im 5,9 about 80kg)

£2500-3000 would probably see you with a half decent motor and a tested used wing. You always find there are extras that you forget about like helmet, boots, reserve etc. which could add another £750-800

4) Take of landing distance to clear 15m obstacle?

Depends very much on wind strength, the stronger the wind, the closer you will be to climbing and descending vertically. In still conditions, it can be quite a distance, length of a football pitch plus. Again, this depends on motor and wing also.

Do I have to have insurance?

It isn't a legal requirement, but most people would strongly recommend it. Imagine the scenario of making a forced landing near a racing stable, scaring a 1/2 million pound racehorse into bolting and breaking a leg and having to be put down.

Thanks for any help!!!

Max

Pleasure, PK

[Max]

Thanks everyone for your reply's (BTW im only 13 at the moment but will be 14 in august)

Would I be able to get insurance at my age? OR would they just presume that i'm not as competant as someone say 2 years older? Also what would i expect to pay for insurance?

The field is about 265 m long with electricity cables overhead but there is an area if about 100m across with a low telephone wire at one end and about 10m trees at the other.

Thanks Max

[pete_b]

Hi Max

I doubt you would get insurance as you have to be at least 16 to legally Paramotor.

You can start to ground handle a wing now and by the time you are 16 you will be 110%.

Pete b

[Max]

This is the problem you see, people tell me different things! If there is no law surrounding the sport apart from airlaw how can it be illigal to fly underage?

It's all very confussing!!!

Thanks Max

[gordon_dunn]

This is the problem you see, people tell me different things! If there is no law surrounding the sport apart from airlaw how can it be illigal to fly underage?

It's all very confussing!!!

Thanks Max

Max......

Unfortunately the law is against you here.

Legal operation of a paramotor is subject to the terms of the CAA Air Navigation Order Exemption.....

Within the terms of the exemption it clearly states that the pilot must be 16 yrs or over.

I've a list of the complete terms here-

Paramotoring in the UK operates under an exemption from the Civil Aviation Authority. The main points of the exemption are summarised here.

Copies of the full exemption may be obtained from the CAA.

Please note that this exemption is in addition to the other rules and regulations governing the operation of paragliders in the UK.

Definition of a Paramotor:

- A foot launched powered flying machine must be demonstrably capable of being safely foot launched from a horizontal surface

in still air or light wind conditions.

- Has a maximum fuel capacity of 10 litres.

- Has a maximum unladen weight, including all fuel, of 60kg for single place aircraft.

Operation:

- The pilot shall be aged 16 years or over

- The aircraft shall be foot launched

The aircraft shall not be flown:

- For public transport or aerial work other than aerial work which consists of the giving of instruction in foot launched powered flying machines

- By night

- Other than in sight of the surface and subject to the following criteria:

- At or below FL 100 approx 10,000ft:

- Flight visibility of 5km

- 1000ft vertically and 1500m horizontally clear of cloud.

- At or below 3000ft above mean sea level:

- Flight visibility of 3km

- Clear of cloud

- Over any congested area of a city, town or settlement

- Closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure except while it is landing in accordance with normal aviation practice or

while hill soaring with the engine stopped

- During take off within 500 feet of a structure (which the pilot could reasonably expect to be inhabited) unless the structure is either the property

of the pilot or prior permission has been obtained from the occupants.

- When towing any article (including any glider)

- Within any Aerodrome Traffic Zone unless with the permission of the appropriate Air Traffic Control Unit.

- Within Controlled Airspace

- Within any Prohibited, Danger or Restricted Area

- No person shall cause or permit an article or person to be dropped from the aircraft.

- Such aircraft shall yield the right of way to all other aircraft.

My advice would be to save up for your kit, get a ground handling harness and wing.... and practice your wingwork so that you are ready to begin your motor training on your 16th birthday.... In theory you could be flying in a few days after.......

The other alternative is - fly in a country that dosent have the age restriction.. I'm not aware of any though.. Ireland is also 16.

Regards,

GD

[Max]

Somewhere on the internet somebody told me that there was a 14 year old french boy that flew a paramotor in the UK.

Can I just ask how is airlaw enforced? Because at the end of the day if I really wanted to i could get approipriat training and equiptment I could just go to a field and fly (OF course I would never do this because If I was caught it would ruin my chances of being a RAF pilot)??

What actually is out there to stop anyone?

Thanks Max

[gordon_dunn]

For a start, no one can legally train you because of your age- their insurance will not cover them, so they'd be taking a big risk.

[Max]

You can legally start to learn at the age of 14 for a PPL so i presume this would be the same for PPG?

Max

[adriane]

I'd guess that there isnt a minimum training age except being dependant on the trainers insurance. However solo would need to be minimum age of 16 (Aviation Law for paramotoring). As usual the law is bizarre in that you cannot buy knives but you could buy paramotoring kit even though you cannot fly solo until 16.

I'm sure you could train earlier but I would say start saving now for the kit and the training. At least you could start your first solo on your 16th Birthday.

In the mean time, apply for the RAF flying scholorship, this is the route I took and the intensive training was amazing. First solo in about 11 hours of flying a cessna from Bodmin in Cornwall!! Dont forget your Air Training Corps (ATC) , I also manged to get my Basic gliding course and my advance gliding course. I was also asked to help out at the Colerne Air Experience Flight (3 AEF). This bumped up my hours and experience. If you have not yet had work experience at school think carefully where you want it. Mine was at 3AEF which included extra flights.

A really good book for reference regarding the applicable laws (in summary) and confirms all the minimum requirements is "paramotoring from the ground up" by Noel Whittall - ususally cheaper on ebay.

Reference to insurance for yourself - even if you did manage to get some they most likely wouldnt pay out because you have to be 16. Its like not having an MOT on your car, if you have a crash your insurance THEN checks your MOT to see if they will pay out.

Hope this makes sense.

Best wishes for the future, Adrian

[gordon_dunn]

As Adrian says... insurance companies are funny like that.. they will take the premium, but avoid the payout where possible....... If they can find a reason they generally wont pay out.

That's why instructors have to be so cautious.... none of them will take the risk unless they're covered... infact some of them may not even consider ground based wing work for someone under 16. It would be worth checking this with a professional instructor though.