edwardc Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Not sure if this has been asked on another occasion but does anybody have an idea on how to buy/make a fuel gauge for a Paramotor? Using a mirror is 'quaint' but I would like a better system if possible! Regards Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I think the best solution to this problem is a capacitive device which is basically two electrodes in the petrol and the further up the electrodes, the greater the capacitance. It's then fairly trivial to come up with the electronics to give you a read out. One of the biggest reasons that this is suitable is it lends itself to the peculiar shaped tanks that many of us have to contend with. At a much simpler level (scuse pun) is a simple float switch that brings on a warning light when the fuel drops beyond a certain level. If you go for this option, make sure you chose a switch that is suitable for immersion in petrol. I also saw somewhere today a direct reading (I think mechanical) gauge for paramotors, which came in about £150 which I think is absurdly expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1714 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Yep, been looking into this as well. Quite rightly pointed out re shaped fuel tank. Try looking www.microfuelgauge.co.uk. I am still searching for something a bit cheaper. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Capacitance is the way to go. I have a schematic around somewhere for a similar monitor I made for my nitro car a few years back. Essentially the same thing but on a smaller scale. I'll post back when i'm home and on my PC. You can also buy specific RC fuel level gauges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Jeeez, that is expensive. I'm seeing a niche.... Also think about optical sensors...RS do one, http://philippines.rs-online.com/web/se ... breadCrumb Or, purpose built for RD helicopter...will just need to extend probe; http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/mercha ... Code=GEMFG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardc Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Some great ideas. I love the Micro fuel gauge Mike. We need to put our ideas together and find a cheap way of doing this. I can put a float switch in that will tell me when I am at a specific point in the fuel cycle very cheaply (as per Phil) but we need to monitor all the time. The option is to put 3 or 4 in connected to seperate LEDs or optic switches but that is also expensive. I can get a row of LEDs from Maplins to use but the variable tank sender units are too expensive. The electrode idea sounds good if we can get more info (Ben). This is the best think tank for Paramotoring so lets have any more ideas and I am sure we will sort it. Cheers Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Have a look at Jim Weirs site; http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/ Scroll down to June/July/Aug 2000. No point in re-inventing most of the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) I looked at Jim Weirs site just now, that 'PCB' looks a right mess! This kit is for 'fluid' so will need to take into account the properties of petrol. I like the LED arrangement; http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams ... ckt6.shtml Some more info here, schematics etc...; http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=914185 Can we not have this sensor at whatever litre we decide is 'turn around now', then simply run it to a small 'hobbie' box mounted on the chassis with an LED and 9v battery inside? Or, another two or three if you want 'full' tank, 'half' and 'low'... http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.co ... 40c2e2.pdf a single sensor is only £13... Edited December 16, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I looked at Jim Weirs site just now, that 'PCB' looks a right mess!This kit is for 'fluid' so will need to take into account the properties of petrol. I like the LED arrangement; http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams ... ckt6.shtml Some more info here, schematics etc...; http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=914185 All you'd have to do to have LED's with Jim's circuit would be to run an A to D converter to drive them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardc Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Ben Mentioned the multiple sensor idea before but at £13 a time without the LEDs we are getting near the price of the micro fuel gauge already made up! Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 You cant beat the simplicity and reliabilty of a reversed vinyl sticker, and a stainless steel mirror. Mine's never let me down yet... keep it simple! Electronic fuel guage... just another system to go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 BenMentioned the multiple sensor idea before but at £13 a time without the LEDs we are getting near the price of the micro fuel gauge already made up! Eddie Oh ok, well I worked it out a bit cheaper... Miniature case: £1.59 Green LED (8mm): 39p Orange LED (8mm): 39p Red flashing LED (8mm): £1.09 3 Level Sensors: £40.98 Sundries (washers etc): £3.00 TOTAL: £47.44 Plus, assuming it works, it can be bought it kit form and made yourself...or pay a bit extra for the PMC, prebuilt version. You also have the choice of going for a simpler version with only the one sensor and flashing red LED for when you are low... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardc Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Ben Looking good now, as I am an Electrical Wholesaler I can probably get the sensors cheaper. What are the ones that you are pricing? Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frazer1981 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Im sure this guy is on the forum He mentions a fuel low level light in this video and how he did it. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AjNNmhfQL ... annel_page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 A flashing light when you're low is not really good enough is it.....? when you're planning your flight, you need to take into consideration where you're going, the distance, airspeed, wind direction, anticipated groundspeed, etc.... will give you a rough idea on how much fuel you're going to use- providing you know your burn rate. Add around say a litre for reserve and you can get it spot on normally. When i'm flying every so often i think about fuel level- but before i glance at my tank, i make an estimation of what i expect to see there- for example if i've taken off with 5 litres, and been flying for 40 mins then, i expect to see 2 litres in the tank.... I also know that i've got another 40 mins left for the mission, and 20 minutes reserve should it be necessary... This is a much better way of monitoring the fuel level.... instead of waiting for a LED to start flashing.... I certainly wouldn't waste money on this, unless it gave me a calibrated indication of what was actually in the tank, so that i could monitor burn rates..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 You're right Gordon, I guess we should always know how much fuel is in the can. But, like on a car, it would be nice to have a little reminder maybe? For the times you're having such a good flight, times literally flying...and before you know it, the motor is coughing and spluttering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Im sure this guy is on the forumHe mentions a fuel low level light in this video and how he did it. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AjNNmhfQL ... annel_page Just had a look and he uses the same switch as I have gone for, but may be cheaper as from a different manufacturer. He only has the one sensor so the two LEDs are overkill really. EdwardC: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/sear ... breadCrumb There are two manufacturers, Gem and Honeywell... The deisgn id so very simple, nothing to go wrong really. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 You're right Gordon, I guess we should always know how much fuel is in the can. But, like on a car, it would be nice to have a little reminder maybe? For the times you're having such a good flight, times literally flying...and before you know it, the motor is coughing and spluttering... Ben i don't accept this arguement- during a flight there are so many factors that you must continually consider and constantly evaluate- anyone who could inadvertently run out of fuel is not truely 'piloting' the machine.... If you're having a 'such good' time not to notice the gust front approaching, or cumulus stacks forming, then you are going to have more serious issues. Calibrating a tank to activate a 'low' fuel light is a waste of time- might as well just wait for the ceasation of vibration/noise.... the best indication of all that you're out of fuel. I consign electronic fuel level guages for paramotors to the same category as chocolate fireguards, glass hammers, rubber nails, motorcycle ashtrays, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Don't forget inflatable dartboards and ejector seats on helicopters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Im sure this guy is on the forumHe mentions a fuel low level light in this video and how he did it. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AjNNmhfQL ... annel_page I think that Kev (Bendme) just uses a float switch at the 2 litre point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Well I have just spent the past year developing a handbrake for a canoe, dont tell me I have been wasting my time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Float switch!!! so with every banked turn you s**t yourself when the red light comes on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Actually... you can get ejector seats in helicopters...... although only one model, the Kamov Ka 50 Check out this- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coggie49 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 If you stay in posative G, the fuel in the tank should stay level relevent to flight not the ground, so no heart attack when you see a red light, just a thought as in turn and slip on fixed wing. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I consign electronic fuel level guages for paramotors to the same category as chocolate fireguards, glass hammers, rubber nails, motorcycle ashtrays, Presumably you also dispense with the little mirror then Gordon, as it is just telling you what you already know? If you still use the mirror, then what is wrong with using a workable alternative, electronic or otherwise? Personally, I know that the mirror system is fallible, as I was convinced that I had plenty of fuel the other day, because I was using the mirror. As it happens (and don't ask me how) what I saw in the mirror was not reflected (sorry) in reality. Maybe a trick of the light, maybe abject stupidity (which I suppose you can't really make contingency for), but I ran out about 4 miles from goal and about 20 minutes earlier than expected. I like doing a fuel plan, but higher than expected winds aloft, resulting in you using the speed bar loads can make a huge difference and throw out planning to a massive extent. As I've only just started using mine, and I was only using it intermittently, I had no real idea how it would affect my fuel burn. Lets face it, the reason that fuel planning is drummed into PPL pilots, is mainly because the fuel gauges are so abysmally inaccurate in most light aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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