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Still enthusiastic of course!

Urm just a few quick money questions for you gurus out there... Training for something i can ill afford is false economy.

1. Excluding fuel and treating yourselves to equipment, what is the average maintenance cost per year assuming you look after your kit etc (appreciate this is very broad).

2. General figure for insurance please. I carry on hearing its like 70.00 but i am VERY sceptical.

3. Cost of radio equipment (what is should look for).

4a. Fuel hungry wings i should avoid (weigh 80kg)

4b. Fuel hungry motors i should avoid.

5. Excluding training costs (which have been agreed). Can someone just give me an educated figure for sensible 2nd hand gear.

Sorry for posting uninteresting fodder however i would rather be clear in my mind than waste simons time at a later date.

i should imagine simon will be the first to reply :)

CHEERS

jonathan

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Still enthusiastic of course!

Urm just a few quick money questions for you gurus out there... Training for something i can ill afford is false economy.

1. Excluding fuel and treating yourselves to equipment, what is the average maintenance cost per year assuming you look after your kit etc (appreciate this is very broad).

2. General figure for insurance please. I carry on hearing its like 70.00 but i am VERY sceptical.

3. Cost of radio equipment (what is should look for).

4a. Fuel hungry wings i should avoid (weigh 80kg)

4b. Fuel hungry motors i should avoid.

5. Excluding training costs (which have been agreed). Can someone just give me an educated figure for sensible 2nd hand gear.

Sorry for posting uninteresting fodder however i would rather be clear in my mind than waste simons time at a later date.

i should imagine simon will be the first to reply :)

CHEERS

jonathan

Imagine you are buying a motorised uni-cycle. Fuel cost aren't that relevant compared with the cost if/when you drop it.

Usually strength and easy repair of cage and cheap props will save you more than fuel in your first year of ownership.

Cheers

Paul

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Still enthusiastic of course!

1. Excluding fuel and treating yourselves to equipment, what is the average maintenance cost per year assuming you look after your kit etc (appreciate this is very broad).

2. General figure for insurance please. I carry on hearing its like 70.00 but i am VERY sceptical.

3. Cost of radio equipment (what is should look for).

4a. Fuel hungry wings i should avoid (weigh 80kg)

4b. Fuel hungry motors i should avoid.

5. Excluding training costs (which have been agreed). Can someone just give me an educated figure for sensible 2nd hand gear.

1) assuming you dotn break anyting ... the maintenance is essentially zero ...

assume .. you wear a wing out in (say) 200 hours (... yeah, I know, opinions vary) ... £2000/200hrs = £10/hr

you could probably put a similar figure on a motor .. techincally, they last a lot longer than that, but chances are after 200hrs of newbie flying, you'll have errm "worn it in" ;)

so figure an equipment depreceation of £20/hr ...

actual maint is almost zero ... 50 quid for a yearly check of the wing? the odd spark plug?

2) 70 for risks, 70 for equipment

3) mmm . figure £100 for a radio on ebay, not really needed though. the only radios licensed for aero use are airband, and you need a couple of permits. failing that, try a PMR set (cheap and cheerful) .. 144mhz/2m is a) not allowed without a licence and b) not allowed for aero use anyway. if you really feel you must use 2m .. avoid the 144.0 to 144.6mhz section at all costs ... be a good neighbour 145.2mhz to 145.6mhz is at least socially acceptable...

3) and 4) fuel costs simply does nto come into it at all. compared to the costs of actually getting to where you are going to fly, the amount of fuel you will use is neglible .. the hungriest motor compred to the most economic will make about 3 quid a day difference to your flying .. it really is nothing compared to the £200 quid bill when you rip the wing on a wire fence .. or break a prop, or seize the motor .. or the £60 round trip to somewhere only to find its blown out .. again ...

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Still enthusiastic of course!

Urm just a few quick money questions for you gurus out there... Training for something i can ill afford is false economy.

1. Excluding fuel and treating yourselves to equipment, what is the average maintenance cost per year assuming you look after your kit etc (appreciate this is very broad).

2. General figure for insurance please. I carry on hearing its like 70.00 but i am VERY sceptical.

3. Cost of radio equipment (what is should look for).

4a. Fuel hungry wings i should avoid (weigh 80kg)

4b. Fuel hungry motors i should avoid.

5. Excluding training costs (which have been agreed). Can someone just give me an educated figure for sensible 2nd hand gear.

Sorry for posting uninteresting fodder however i would rather be clear in my mind than waste simons time at a later date.

i should imagine simon will be the first to reply :)

CHEERS

jonathan

Imagine you are buying a motorised uni-cycle. Fuel cost aren't that relevant compared with the cost if/when you drop it.

Usually strength and easy repair of cage and cheap props will save you more than fuel in your first year of ownership.

Cheers

Paul

That all rings true Paul, but, I wouldn't neccessarily agree that anyone, especially a person new to this sport, should have to casually accept that they're likely to break a £1000's worth of props when strong units,which very rarely break props, are available to buy. A guy near me has broken five and only flown 8 flights. A false economy?

Regards

Dave

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This is all good stuff! I didnt even know about prop damage... Remember im 18 - massive unexpected cost would ruin me!

Regarding the wing - scary days. What do you mean by "worn out" in terms of the wing. Is it not just a case of avoiding trees and packing it up correctly. I mean with no damage or all damage repaired it would still fly the same after X number of hours. Please tell me what factor i am overlooking here.

In addition to this, in terms of economy second hand shopping (assuming its looked after) what would be the "cut off" age for a wing making it non salable?

Prop wise, would it help to have a smaller prop (in proportion to cage) to start with and then perhaps invest in a nice carbon jobbie when i am confident. You see i am also failing to appreciate how i can damage my prop with correct use. Surely it wouldnt strike anything!?!?!

P.s can i get equivalent to fully comp insurance?

And to exhaust your eyes. Is there much potential to recover costs - I am thinking of providing tandem flights in a year or two....... i kind of figue university students are a good market

jonathan

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This is all good stuff! I didnt even know about prop damage... Remember im 18 - massive unexpected cost would ruin me!

Regarding the wing - scary days. What do you mean by "worn out" in terms of the wing. Is it not just a case of avoiding trees and packing it up correctly. I mean with no damage or all damage repaired it would still fly the same after X number of hours. Please tell me what factor i am overlooking here.

In addition to this, in terms of economy second hand shopping (assuming its looked after) what would be the "cut off" age for a wing making it non salable?

Prop wise, would it help to have a smaller prop (in proportion to cage) to start with and then perhaps invest in a nice carbon jobbie when i am confident. You see i am also failing to appreciate how i can damage my prop with correct use. Surely it wouldnt strike anything!?!?!

P.s can i get equivalent to fully comp insurance?

And to exhaust your eyes. Is there much potential to recover costs - I am thinking of providing tandem flights in a year or two....... i kind of figue university students are a good market

jonathan

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Mmm .. canopies eventually become porus .. 400 hours flying is a common figure .. its realtively rare for this to happen though, they usually get trashed in some other random way before that, or you just get bored of it and buy something else ... resale value of a 100+ hour canopy is about 400 quid ... of a 200+ hour canopy is about 50 quid. .. by the time youve put 200 hours on it, it will be 5 years old, shagged ut, and much better stuff will be on the market.

props and cages get damaged. you rip and fall, it ahppens. in THEORY they last forever .. in paractice .. well, it happens :)

And to exhaust your eyes. Is there much potential to recover costs - I am thinking of providing tandem flights in a year or two....... i kind of figue university students are a good market

umm none whatsoever.

1) first you need to learn to fly solo ... (think solo wing, mid sized paramotor)

2) then you need lots of experience .. (think a couple of years of good solid every flyable weekend)

3) then you need to buy a tandem paramotor ...

4) .. and this is where i *think* im correct ... to take a PAYING passenger who is not a student pilot under instruction you probably need a minimum of a BCPL (or whatever the current equivalent is) and worse, a paramotor with a Public Transport CofA, assuming im wrong about the first part .. you'll probably need at a MINIMUM a microlight licence, and register the paramotor as microlight, and even then you MAY be limited to cost sharing with other licensed microlight pilots ... I could be wrong, but im pretty sure you wont be able to do "aerial work" (as it is called) on an unregistered tandem paramotor .. and the licensing requirements will just be crazy .. if not impossible.

Honestly, I know it sounds like a laugh, but trust me, once you have had a go, and got say, 10 launches under your belt, you'll reallise its not practical t get payback from taking your mates out for a fly .. tandem paragliding is tricky enough ... paramotor .. gee, possible I guess, but, really, its far more difficult than you might imagine. ... just enjoy the weekend flying .. and get a bar job 2 nights a week.

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A bar job... and the rest!!! But thank you for clearing that up. I knew it would be a tricky business - maybe in a gap year after 4-5 years exp and a degree on my belt.

Depressing as it was, you have been a real help! Is it possible to get a cage that contains the whole prop? I know i would lose out on performance but maybe for training. Like stabalisers for kids on bikes if you like?

Anyway i appreciate what you say about getting exp. I suppose it is so easy to watch you guys on Youtube doing crazy stuff, I understand the principles of flight in theory and it seems a piece of cake... Saying that, i understand the principles of juggling and tightrope walking but i know ill be crap.

Anyway again THANKS

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Now the good side

If you are a good learner and you have a good teacher and you do not try to fly in unsutable conditions you should not break a prop or damage your wing (yes I know shite happens but)

I have been flying for about 5 years now (approx 300 hours) and I have not broke a prop.

My pap top 80 had 200+ hours on it without a spanner.

So buy some resonable secondhand kit and just enjoy flying dont worry about cost as if you want to do something that much you can always find the money somewhere.

Daaad can you????? sounds familiar :D:D:D

Pete b

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