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I almost put this on the safety thread but although it was scary yesterday we had enough height to be safe.

We flew on the edge of the weather, after a heavy shower, yesterday. Going away from cloud to begin with then across and toward cloud. It was sunny, 5 pm and rather lively, but then we hit wild turbulence. Strong lift tipping our wings and for a while I was nervous. It got slightly better and my mate flew lower towards home. I wanted to fly a little further to a mates house and that was a mistake. I got hoovered up at 800ft/ min on tick over, gained a 1000 ft in no time and couldn't find sink so started a long gentle spiral. At one point still gaining 200ft/ min doing that. Bit of an experience but still enjoyed by both. Felt sick though.

dave

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do you fly a reflex wing and can that wing be out into a b-line stall do you know Dave?

Spirals can often be spiral climbs rather than spiral dives in strong lift. I think there was a thread on rapid descent techniques a while back.

Rather than turn to get down how a bout flying fast away from the lift? the stronger the lift on a given day the stronger the sink nearby?

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Haven't done a B line with motor yet. Had trimmers out on my Atis 2 but didn't find sink and didn't want to find the top of the Cu growing ever taller behind me. It was actually quite fun turning to get down. I hope I get used to the effect of the G's on my stomach because that seems to be my limiting factor. Maybe a good thing eh ?

Thanks Francis

Dave

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Haven't done a B line with motor yet. Had trimmers out on my Atis 2 but didn't find sink and didn't want to find the top of the Cu growing ever taller behind me. It was actually quite fun turning to get down. I hope I get used to the effect of the G's on my stomach because that seems to be my limiting factor. Maybe a good thing eh ?

Thanks Francis

Dave

Dave,

This was my early post on rapid down v rapid run away.

Glad it had a happy ending. Ditch that wing and be a cowards like me and get a 'run away reflex' mate ;-)

Cheers

Paul

I can understand the rapid decent needs for a paragliding wing, and I recall the forum/pub discussions of various techniques after the paragliding lady went to 30,000 ft in Australia.

As usual, my memory has lost the detail :? but the idea of using the reflex wing with trimmers out then full speed bar to rapidly fly away (not just rapid decent) from the early stages of cloud suck I liked.

From the little I know - as I have little rapid descent experience - if cloud suck started happened while I'm flying my Action, I will fly away as fast as possible. Only if that fails will I consider a rapid decent.

I have pasted below a topical write-up from http://www.flyparamania.com/Flightreport.htm

Thoughts anyone?

Cheers

Paul

_____________

Pilot: Chris Calthrop

Country: UK

Model: Action 27

Paramotor: Adventure Solo 210

I hope all is well with you. just a quick one as I am off to a kite event in Hunstanton today. Hoping for no wind to fly around a bit!

I had a cloud sucking experience couple of days back. I was thermalling up at 8ft/min toward a perfect cloud that rapidly turned ugly. I thought maybe time to exit the situation and straightened out to run away upwind as I didnt want to get any closer to the cloud and that was the only way "away" from it. But instead I was going up at 8ft/min+ backwards which got me panicking a bit. I then tried to spiral dive... I went to lock in but I was still climbing at 1ft/min.. I quit that and put the trims right up and yanked the speed bar out. Getting buffeted around I skimmed under the cloud and out the side, finally sinking at 1ft/min only...I ran and ran! I had climbed from 1500 to 2400 while trying to go down. Base at 2400. I noticed that everywhere I looked the wind was going toward this cloud at ground level... as I continued on my XC to canterbury I noticed a suck toward another "perfect" cloud.. I stayed well away.. For many this might have been the perfect thermal, but as my first cloudbase experience.. a bit nerve wracking. I write to say it was reassuring knowing that the reflex would stabilise the wing , giving the confidence to use full speed bar to get the %#$& out of there.

Cheers, Chris

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My friend was flying his revolution 26 alongside my Atis2 28. Both of us had trimmers right up but neither had bar rigged. Our speeds are the same whilst motoring. I can also fly my Atis at the hill even though it's a size too small really. The glide angle is very good.

The answer is not to go there but it was fun

Dave

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errm, im probably thick .. but how does that work?

its a size too small to be flown at the hill without a motor ... wouldn't that make it way out of weight limit with a motor? or am I missing something?

I'm no expert and only have 40 hours logged ppg but the motor I have now is very powerfull so it's possible to launch a smaller wing, especially one with a glide like that of the Atis 2. I find landing with a bit of speed good too providing you time the flare well. If you go by the book I'm overloading it, granted.

Without the motor , obviously, you depend on lift from the hill or thermal. If it's very breezy, provided you can still penetrate, it's possible to fly a smaller glider and still gain height at the hill. On Saturday it wasn't very breezy and I was up with the rest. Not as high as some mind you and riding the brakes fairly hard and just weight shifting for turns. The wing is rated 110KG all up. I was 122 all up so gentle conditions would neccessitate an extra large or less pies I guess. I never thought it would fly me and was just ground handling whilst the mrs went tandem with my mate. I didn't fancy a walk up from the beach but my mate flew past and kept shouting go for it. Glad I did

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Somebody told me recently that Paramania now quote their wing sizes by projected area rather than flat area. Is this true?

Dont know the answer to that Ian. Simon's Revo 26 is new though so I will try to find out. He was surprised I kept up on my Atis2 28 m. Going to try to get up with his wing next. Probably wont make a habit of it though. The other thing that came out of loading the wing heavier is less torque steer i fancy or am I barking up the wrong tree.?

Dave

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Dave,

Next time that you have a couple of thousand feet to spare, try a B-Line stall, I have done one on an Attis 2 it is very controlled and not scarey.

You can just do it for a few seconds at first, it is reassuring to know that you can do it if needed. I expect some will be thinking, this should only be done on a SIV with an instructor, but I think its quite safe to just do it yourself, probably safer than not doing it.

I don't know how reflex wings behave with B-line, can anyone comment? I imagine they would be hard to stall as they are more heavily loaded, or maybe you just don't need to with a reflex?

Stick with the Attis Dave, and make the most of all that free lift!!!!

Paul D

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Not all gliders behave well in B-line, although most modern ones do. (its more that they dont come out of it so well).

Check the DHV or EN report for your glider and also the manufacturers manual (most of these available on-line www.para2000.org)

If your wing is recommended for B-Line you need to think of it as a means of getting down from "way high" to "just a bit high" and NOT get down to "low enough to land from here" (use asymetric or big ears for that).

Take the B line mailons in a firm grasp and pull firmly and consistently downwards until you feel the wing "break" i.e you dont have to pull so hard to keep it in. You will feel the airspeed reduce to nil (no wind noise) and you will get that sinking feeling. You are now going down at 8m/s ish (in still air)

To come out of the stall push the b mailons back up again (dont let them go or do it slowly) push them up firmly and consistently. The wing should nod forward and begin to fly again. If the wind noise does not pick up,.... gently ease out the speed bar to reduce the angle of attack and it should start to fly. If you forgot to rig the bar you can do the same by pushing forward a little on the a mailons.

Reflex wings do not b-line stall unless they are in " trimmed to slow" mode. Even then consult your manual and read the test report to see what issues are associated.

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