Reserve Bridle routing

[macey2kk]

Hey all,

forgive me if this has been covered before.

is anyone able to post a picture of how they have routed their bridals - preferably on a parajet.

i have done it by attaching to harness at the high level entries, used the velcro strap on the harness ( back of the head ) to attach there, then used the velcro strap on the bridle line sleeve and attached this to the upper section of my frame ( not cage ) , this forms a nice V shape behind my head then the bridals run down to my left and connect into my supair container on the left side ( my chosen deployment side )

does this sound correct?

[pete_b]

CORRECT just make sure that it will not catch on anything and deploy, and that it will deploy witout catching on anything

Pete b

[Guest]

I find paramotor harnesses reserve bridle routing very very disappointing. PG harnesses have got this off to a fine art with carefully constructed sleeves that keep the bridle well out of the way and serve to deploy the bridle without snagging and progressively rotate the pilot to the correct position during deployment rather than jerk him upright.

It realy surprises me that the very same harness manufacturers e.g. sup air, woody valley etc are happy to trot out the rubbish we get. This is a major safety issue that we should press hard for improvement on. I love my parajet but their bridle routing is pitiful.

I am very glad to hear you are using the shoulder reserve mounts and not the carabiners at the riser hang points. And also that you are routing down one side with both bridles. Are you using mailons nipped up with a spanner?

[Phil_P]

I'm quite happy with the routing on my Adventure. The bridles are retained within velcro sleeves that will burst as loaded. They run neatly down the side and out to the lap position which is the designed location for the reserve. Strikes me this would be dead easy to duplicate on a diy basis, and failing the velcro, how about some lightweight zip ties that would break open?

A couple of things trouble me (slightly).

1) the attachment of my bridles to the top of my harness are done with loops of webbing. They can't be changed out for carabiners because the loops are sewn in such a way that they can't be removed. I have read up a lot on the subject, and webbing on webbing attachments are seen as sub-optimal, although probably not a problem in a single deployment. After all, it's how the manufacturer have set it up (perhaps they've never had someone take one back to complain that it failed?). I have considered cutting off these bridles and fitting replacements routed the same but attached with carabiners. Or perhaps something to go between the interfacing layers of webbing. Thoughts anyone?

2) How do YOU attach the bridles to your reserve package? Maillon's or carabiners. It has been suggested to me that Maillon's are better, but the carabiners that I have on my set up currently have a higher ultimate load limit than appropriately sized maillon's, and of course won't experience the cyclic stresses that seem to have resulted in some crab failures. My thoughts are that crabs attach much easier and are self locking so are less likely to be mis-fitted during pre-flight. Again, I'm interested in thoughts, positive and negative.

[macey2kk]

I find paramotor harnesses reserve bridle routing very very disappointing. PG harnesses have got this off to a fine art with carefully constructed sleeves that keep the bridle well out of the way and serve to deploy the bridle without snagging and progressively rotate the pilot to the correct position during deployment rather than jerk him upright.

It realy surprises me that the very same harness manufacturers e.g. sup air, woody valley etc are happy to trot out the rubbish we get. This is a major safety issue that we should press hard for improvement on. I love my parajet but their bridle routing is pitiful.

I am very glad to hear you are using the shoulder reserve mounts and not the carabiners at the riser hang points. And also that you are routing down one side with both bridles. Are you using mailons nipped up with a spanner?

thanks francis -- my mailons are being nipped up with a spanner as we speak!

my mailons are rated at 450kg ( i think 6mm ) as provided by this kit http://www.northern-paragliding.com/online-shop/reserves/reserve-accessories/reserve-attachment-maillon-bridle-kit.html?flypage=shop.flypage- is this strong enough as my all up weight is around 165kg and wonder about the jerk upon deployment causing excessve loading? - oh, i didnt use the bridles in the end - i got some stronger ones from pete may - thanks pete.!

[Guest]

Glad to hear the adventure has full deployment tubes. DiY is a good idea but routing is key. Be sure you have researched it and look carefully at PG harnesses for design and routing.

Webbing to webbing attachment. The concern here is with the sudden movement of nylon on nylon causing friction heat high enough to melt the webbing (another reason for progressive deployment systems). Ensure that the webs are pulled tight in the knot and fix them so they cant slacken. You can use ptfe or supermarket carrier bag to "fix" the knot. always use something soft that will not abrade the web. This applies to reserve/bridle connection as well as your unusual bridle to harness conection. Often a bridle is connected to the reserve with an oval 6 to 8mm mailon but even this should have the web "fixed" to the metal as described above to minimise movement of the joint in deployment.

Carabiners are not the thing to use. Definitely mailons. If you are nervous about 6mm then use 8.

[Phil_P]

Carabiners are not the thing to use. Definitely mailons. If you are nervous about 6mm then use 8.

Why is that Francis given that for example a 6mm maillon may be rated at 450kg, but a good quality 'biner at maybe 20KN (2000kg give or take). It can't be because of shock loading, because mountaineers/rock climbers use 'biners exclusively, or at least I've never heard of them using maillons. Maillons are much less convenient and prone to incomplete closure (a bit of muck on the threads can leave you thinking you've done it up fully).

With a front mounted reserve, having to carry a spanner to connect your case can hardly be practical.

Also, looking at numbers, after seven seconds of free fall (not unreasonable before throwing a reserve) you have accelerated to 5g, so a 120kg total load of pilot and gear would now have an apparent weight of 600kg. It's normal to apply a multiplier of two as a safety factor, so we should have a system rated to a minimum of 1200kg at it's weakest link. Obviously a pair of 6mm maillons doesn't meet this. Even 8mm maillon's rated to 700kg each come a little close.

[Guest]

Yes quite right to pick me up on this! My advice tends to be geared to the general, in that there is less to go wrong if the advice is simply "only use mailons bought from a paragliding shop) as these will be adequate, easily fitted and present the least number of pitfalls.

Pitfalls? you say a "good quality" carabiner and this needs to be researched by the buyer to ensure the quality is as required and tested to be compliant with the stated number. There are many carabs out there! Using a crab that you have previously been using for flight? wheras maillons are unlikely to have ebeen used as you only buy them for your reserve. carabiners have a service life due to in flight flexing.

carabiners are subject to closure failure with grit, webbing, worn springs etc so no different to maillons in the checking for closure that is required on fitting.

Carabiners are more convenient if you are constatntly on and offing your bridle but the length of time you need to refit a reserve if taken up with bridle routing and not much in maillon nipping so a marginal benefit perhaps? both need careful preflighting for correct closure and attachment. They are generally much bigger and sit less easily at your shoulders but again they can be taped down ( making their added convenience less so.

I certainly dont say "dont use carabiners" if you are happy with your research and the quality of your purchase.

Our discussions are viewed by many and I would be happier to feel taht a simple "genral rule of thumb" that represents the common practise in our sport isw promoted.

I do know that many attach their reserve to their hang point carabiners alongside their risers, it is quick, convenient and in all probability adequate. I disagree with that practise.

What you are saying is attach separate carabiners to the reserve attachement points in place of the maillons using "good quality" carabiners......fine.

There is a very good discussion on the Charliie website where they tested many makes and found some interesting diversity in quality and function.